Gog of Magog: Destroyed on the Mountains of Israel?

Gog of Magog: Destroyed on the Mountains of Israel?

Joel Richardson

In several previous articles, I have argued that the infamous “Gog” and his hordes of Ezekiel 38-39, are one and the same as the Antichrist / Beast figure of the New Testament and other Old Testament passages. Of course, many students and teachers of prophecy disagree with this view. Among the primary arguments used to support the two being distinct, one argument in particular, although widely accepted, is demonstrably not in accord with the greater context of Ezekiel’s language.

This particular argument holds that Gog and his hordes will be killed literally and specifically on the “mountains of Israel”, whereas Antichrist and his armies will specifically be killed either in the Valley of Jezreel, near Megiddo, or the valley of Jehoshaphat just outside Jerusalem, depending on who you ask. As such, it is claimed, the two eschatological figures and their armies cannot be the same.

This argument was popularized by Hebrew scholar Arnold Fruchtenbaum in his book, Footsteps of the Messiah. According to Fruchtenbaum, the prophetic/poetic description of the destruction of Gog and his hordes “upon the mountains of Israel”, means that they will literally die exclusively on top of the actual mountains of modern day Israel.

Numerous prophecy teachers have since followed Fruchtenbaum’s line of argumentation on this matter. Nathan Jones of Lamb Lion Ministries, for example, says:

The locations described for the two battles [the Battle of Gog of Magog and the Battle of Armageddon] do not match. Armageddon takes place in a valley — the Valley of Jezreel by the plain of Megiddo (Judges 5:19; 2 Kings 23:29; 2 Chron. 35:22; Zech. 12:11). Ezekiel 38:8 describes the Gog-Magog Battle taking place on the mountains — the “mountains of Israel.”

Numerous other prophecy students and teachers alike could be cited making identical claims. What then is the problem with this view? Well, simply put, the term, “the mountains of Israel” is simply an expression that refers to the whole land of Israel. If we examine the greater context of Ezekiel’s oracle, then this becomes abundantly clear. Only two chapters prior, for example, God commands Ezekiel to prophesy to “the Mountains of Israel” but then He details exactly what He means by that expression:

“Therefore, O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD… Thus says the Lord GOD to the mountains and to the hills, to the ravines and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes and to the forsaken cities which have become a prey and a derision to the rest of the nations which are round about”… Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel and say to the mountains and to the hills, to the ravines and to the valleys… ‘I will multiply men on you, all the house of Israel, all of it; and the cities will be inhabited and the waste places will be rebuilt. —Ezekiel 36:1,4,6,10

So to be clear, when God, says, “mountains of Israel,” He is referring to:

The hills of Israel
The ravines of Israel
The valleys of Israel
The (formerly devastated) ruins of Israel
The (formerly devastated) cities of Israel
The “land of Israel”
The “whole house of Israel”

The phrase “mountains of Israel” is simply another way of referring to all of Israel, the land that was once left desolate, which has now been resettled by God’s people. There can be no question that the LORD here uses “the mountains of Israel” to refer to the entirety of the land of Israel as well as its people.

A very similar example can be seen in an expression frequently used in modern times with reference to the United States. One might say, for example, that the words of Ronald Reagan still resonate “all across the fruited plains”. “The fruited plains” is not merely a reference exclusively to the plains of the US, but rather to the entire United States. It is an expression that includes the forests, the deserts and the mountainous regions, as well as the plains and the coastlands. In no way would any American hear this expression and understand it with such a wooden literalism so as to only mean the actual plains of America. Likewise, neither should we understand the phrase here, “the mountains of Israel” to only refer to the mountains only.

But if the above passage from Ezekiel 36, which so clearly contextualizes the actual meaning of the phrase “mountains of Israel” is not sufficient to prove that the LORD was not speaking exclusively of Israel’s mountains, then it would seem that Ezekiel 39:5 would have put to the issue to rest a long time ago. There, God states outright that Gog will fall, not on a mountain, but specifically, “in the open field”:

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog… You will fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD. —Ezekiel 39:1,5

Obviously, Gog cannot fall both in an open field and on top of a mountain. This would be a contradiction. But when “the mountains of Israel” are understood properly to simply mean all of Israel, there is no problem here.

In conclusion then, any effort to argue that Gog cannot be the Antichrist because one is destroyed in the Valley of Jezreel near Megiddo, while the other is destroyed “on the mountains of Israel” is seen to be an argument not rooted in a proper understanding of the language or the greater context of Ezekiel’s prophecy.

In the end, the evidence for Gog being one and the same with the Biblical Antichrist is overwhelming. As we draw ever so much closer to the actual days when this prophecy is fulfilled, it is essential that students of God’s word pay very careful attention to what He has so clearly stated on these matters. As Jesus said to His disciples, “behold I have told you ahead of time.”

42 Responses to Gog of Magog: Destroyed on the Mountains of Israel?

  1. wilson says:

    Dear Bro Joel, Could you please explain on the sequence of what comes first and next like the rapture, the revealing and the rise of Antichrist, when the 7 year peace treaty will be signed, temple built , the time of tribulation, the wars etc etc

  2. Joel says:

    Loosely:

    Seven year final period begins,

    Signing of the security covenant,

    Temple (of some sort) rebuilt, sacrifices begin,

    Regional wars and rumors of war,

    Midpoint of seven years arrives, Antichrist violates the Treaty, Abomination of Desolation

    Israel is occupied (Jacob’s Trouble)

    Jesus returns, Rapture/ Resurrection,

    Jesus defeats His enemies,

    Jesus assumes the Throne of David

  3. Bob says:

    “Among the primary arguments used to support the two being the same, one argument in particular, although widely accepted, is quite easy to dismantle.”
    Is this sentence worded correctly? “The same” or not the same?
    Thanks for a great blog. Interesting times we live in.

  4. Ian Willis says:

    Amen brother, keep posting! Are you fimiliar with the Jewish calendar? verry amazing…. check out this link… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi78PmRX46Y

  5. […] Gog of Magog: Destroyed on the Mountains of Israel? […]

  6. alan cobb says:

    I agree with this order of events. If God went to the trouble of giving His people time frames as: 7 years, 1,260 days, 42 months, 3 1/2 years it would seem to me that we would be here when they begin and when they end. It will be encouraging for the saints, (Rev. 13:7)to know how close the coming of the Lord is during this time.

  7. […] Gog of Magog: Destroyed on the Mountains of Israel? […]

  8. Joel says:

    Thanks Bob

  9. Dirk says:

    There is another option. 7 year tribulation begins —> /Revelation 16, First fight with Gog at the Battle of Armageddon in the VALLEY of Har Megiddo/Psalm 83–> Return of Messiah, Revelation 20 Battle of Gog and Magog in the MOUNTAINS of Israel.

    There’s no denying that there is a battle with Gog and Magog AFTER the return of Messiah. But, as part of God’s cycle, Antichrist (Gog) is going to destroyed twice. Once at Armageddon (Psalm 83). Once as described in Revelation 20. Both will be capped by earthquakes/hailstones. What has happened once generally happens again and again and again. Look at the Psalm 83 nations and notice that these nations are only partially represented in Revelation 20. Why? Because they were largely destroyed in Psalm 83. THAT is why the nations don’t match up (between Psalm 83 and the nations described in Ezekiel 38). Ezekiel 38 describes the SECOND destruction of Gog. Reading it any other way and the story becomes incomprehensible.

    Different nations. Different Armies. Different times (1000 years apart). Different battle zones. Same commander (Antichrist).

    This is quite simple in terms of logistics.

  10. David says:

    Dirk,

    I believe Revelation 20:7-10 is just making it so the reader knows its really satan who is really the power behind gog, and he is up to his tricks again.

    If you see in Ezekiel, after gog is defeated, people are employed for seven (7) years burying the bodies of the dead and in comparison, in Rev. 20, after gog (i.e) satan, is cast in the lake of fire, then comes the resurrection of the dead and the great white throne judgement.

    The gog mentioned in Rev. 20:7-10 is “ONLY” referencing that its satan using someone else, and this one is over quickly. No burying the dead or cleansing the land after this one.

  11. Sharon says:

    Great blog Joel and I really appreciated your book on the Mideast Beast. Pity more people (Christians) haven’t made the connection that the people of Antichrist are “hidden in plain sight” – Islam!
    Alan Cobb I agree with your comments that those1260, days, 42 months and 31/2 years are sign posts to encourage us in a world seemingly out of control. Indeed interesting times to be alive.

  12. Mark Johnston says:

    Dear Joel. I find your arguments clear and mostly convincing. I sometimes wish you would not use such a condesceding tone when saying such things as ‘other arguments are ‘easy to dimantle’ and ‘silly’. However in the main it is hard to refute the basic proposal that the Islamic empire is the the last days empire of the anti- christ and that the prophesies such as gog and magog do point the individual man of sin coming out this same empire. Keep up the good work.

  13. Joel says:

    Mark,

    I certainly appreciate your comments. Ironically, one of the most common complements I receive is the respect I (generally) show to those with whom I disagree and their views. And this despite the frequent over-the-top abusive language directed at me personally for simply articulating my position. I’ve had everything from direct threats to the security of my family to outright curses to claims that I need to be medicated. Seriously. All from well-known Christian leaders. But far more concerning to me would be the possibility that I was behaving in a condescending way, for this is certainly not my heart. That said, while most of the arguments that I am addressing have a measure of merit, in the case of the above argument, I think “silly” may be a fairly mild and appropriate term. At least in this case. But I will modify the above post and will certainly take your comments to heart. Thanks much.

    Blessings!

  14. Chip Cloutier says:

    Joel
    I agree with your timeline, and I agree that Islam will be the endtimes one world government. This is why I Am so involved in politics.I believe that a US government that will apease the islamists, will eventually surrender US soverenty to the one world government. We have your newest book, but my wife will not let me have it till next month, for my birthday.

  15. FX says:

    Bonjour Joel !

    Thanks for your great insights, it is always a pleasure to read you.

    Regarding Wilson’s above post and your response, have you consider the following regarding the question about the 7 year peace tready?

    The main verse to bring forward the possible 7 year peace tready is based on the “confirmation of the covenant” that the prophet Daniel spoke about in Daniel 9:27

    Allow me to cut & past an interesting interpretation courtesy of “ICA” who also has a great website (http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com)

    quote:

    We should understand that there are three views regarding the 70th week of Daniel, the time in which Daniel writes about “confirming the covenant”. These three views state that the 70th Week is either: A. Already fulfilled, B. Partially fulfilled, or C. Not yet fulfilled.

    Although the first view — that the 70th Week of Daniel has already been fulfilled — is the most prevalent view throughout church history, I currently lean towards the second view that it is partially fulfilled only, though I am open to the first view as well to some degree. To the surprise of some, the traditional dispensational position — which teaches that the 70th Week of Daniel is still awaiting a full future fulfilment — is a relatively recent invention and was never taught prior to the 19th century. We can verify this by reading any book on Biblical eschatology prior to Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby. Not only is this position the newest, it is, in my view, the weakest as well.

    From what can I find in Scripture alone, I am persuaded to believe that Christ is the One Himself who already fulfilled at least the first half of Daniel’s 70th week. When it was pronounced to Daniel that 70 weeks were determined for his people and that the Messiah would be “cut off” after the first 69 weeks, the natural presumption can only be that the death of the Messiah would take place sometime during the last week. What could be more naturally assumed than that the death of Messiah concerned the 70th week? [1]. Considering that the Messiah is mentioned more times in Daniel 9:24-26 than anyone else, it stands to reason in my mind that the Messiah is Daniel’s primary focus. (The “people of the prince that shall come“, though an important detail, is largely parenthetical to the overall thrust of Daniel’s passage). In speaking about the Messiah, Daniel then writes:

    Daniel 9:27a, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease…”

    If a covenant was subsequently confirmed by Christ, then Scripture should affirm this elsewhere. And does it? Let’s allow Scripture to speak for itself and compare Danial 9:27a above with the following verse below:

    Galatians 3:17, “And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”

    Not only does it imply as much, Galatians 3:17 uses the exact same language as Daniel 9:27a, indicating that the Apostle Paul was quoting Daniel directly and telling us that Daniel’s 70 weeks did not stop once the 69th week came to an end. It continued right into the 70th week, the time when Messiah began His ministry and the time during which the Messiah would be “cut off” according to Daniel 9:26. (The word for “cut off” is “karath”, which means to cut down or kill and is the same word used in Leviticus 7:27 for the death penalty). And indeed, something pivotal took place about 3.5 years after Jesus began His earthy ministry. He was crucified in accordance with the plan of the Father for the sins of the world and this act of being “cut off” and shedding His blood would be, according to the words of Christ Himself, the confirmation of a new covenant for many:

    Matthew 26:28, “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

    The Messiah is the Lamb of God. He is our Passover. And because of His sacrifice, the sacrifice and oblations (offerings) of the old law ceased. They were no longer required, and were no longer of any value.

    Hebrews 8:6-8, “… he [Christ] is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.”

    Hebrews 10:1-10, “For the law … can never with these same sacrifices … make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered?… For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: ‘Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin You had no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come — In the volume of the book it is written of Me — To do Your will, O God.’’ … then He said, ‘Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.’ He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].”

    There is nothing in Scripture that I could find to suggest a pause in between the 69th and 70th weeks, as many attempt to do today. But a pause in time, however, is not out of the question in the middle of the 70th. Admittedly, I could be wrong, and perhaps there is no mid-70th week gap at all and Daniel’s prophecy continued to completion with the stoning of Stephen (Acts 11) about 3.5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, at which point the Gospel was then preached shortly thereafter to the Gentiles (cf. Romans 1:16). Or perhaps it’s something else entirely. Although the 70 weeks of Daniel can be consecutive from beginning to end, the possibility of a mid-week pause is a strong one in my view. We even find an example of a “mid-pause” in time essentially from a comma. In Luke 4:16-21 when Jesus went into the synagogue and read the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1-3 to proclaim its fulfillment, He stopped mid-way in the prophecy. This is what He fulfilled:

    Isaiah 61:1-3, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD [], and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.”

    Interestingly, Jesus felt the need to mention something a few verses later in Luke 4:25, stating, “But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, and there was a great famine throughout all the land.” Could this have been a clue to something? Only God knows. But with respect to the 70th week of Daniel, however, if only the first half was fulfilled then the other half is yet to be fulfilled. But what would that be? The answer should be obvious: the 1260 days / 42 months / time, times and the dividing of time spoken of by the prophet Daniel and John in Revelation. It’s the 3.5 prophetic years of Antichrist during which time the people of God suffer intense persecution by the Beast, and the Beast and its people incur the chastising wrath of God before their ultimate end. Scripture itself never speaks of a future seven-years of anything. It just doesn’t exist. But it does speak of “3.5 prophetic years”, which just so happens to be half of one of Daniels 70 weeks …

    end quote. Taken from: http://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2012/07/28/confirming-the-covenant-president-obama-signs-the-united-states-israel-enhanced-security-cooperation-act/

    Blessings,

    FX

  16. Dirk says:

    David,
    “If you see in Ezekiel, after gog is defeated, people are employed for seven (7) years burying the bodies of the dead and in comparison, in Rev. 20, after gog (i.e) satan, is cast in the lake of fire, then comes the resurrection of the dead and the great white throne judgement.”

    There’s an ambiguity in the text as to
    1) How long Gog is let loose and allowed to deceive (1 year? 1000 years?) and there is an ambiguity as to how long after does it take for the throne judgment.

    “The gog mentioned in Rev. 20:7-10 is “ONLY” referencing that its satan using someone else, and this one is over quickly. No burying the dead or cleansing the land after this one.”

    Likewise, no burying of the dead in Revelation 19. The text is ambiguous.

  17. I personally follow your eschatological lineout as I find it more bible based than other alternatives. But there are two events or scenes in heaven which those who believe rapture takes place before the seven year tribulation period use to say that the church is here meanwhile havoc takes place on earth; the ‘wedding of the Lamb’ and the ‘twenty-four elders’ scene from Revelation 4:4. ¿Could you place for me these two heavenly events? Thanks and God bless His work on you.

  18. Steve says:

    Chip, there will be no one world government. John tells us in Revelation 6:8 “So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.”

    This is anti-Christ’s final ride and he only controls one fourth of the earth. Alexander’s kingdom. I believe other world powers will be weakened before all this. Our president is seeing to that right now.

  19. What does Armageddon mean?

    Where this place is called Armageddon? It has generally been thought that the Hebrew word “Armageddon” (actually Har-mageddon) means “mountain Megiddo” and that “Armageddon” designates a mountain at the ancient Israeli town of Megiddo ( in Hebrew har means mountain, hill, mount or mountain range). However, there is NO mountain at Megiddo! The ancient site of Megiddo is only associated with a ten acre, sixty foot high hill archeologists call a “tell” which is made up of many layers of ancient ruins. Few scholars have acknowledged that there is another translation for the word “Armageddon” (Har-mageddon). In Hebrew names often give literal information about the place being named. So, instead of taking the word “mageddon” to be the name of a town, the literal meaning of the word can be used. In Hebrew mageddon means “a place of troops” or “an assembly of troops” or “a rendezvous of troops” (#4023 in Strong’s Concordance). Therefore, instead of the commonly recognized translation of Armageddon (Har-mageddon) as “mountain Megiddo,” in the context of Revelation’s events, it should be translated as “a mountain assembly of troops” or “a mountain rendezvous of troops.”

    A “mountain rendezvous of troops” is consistent with the Sixth Vial that describes the armies of the world being gathered together in a specific place on the day of the Lord. The Hebrew word har of Har-mageddon tells us that this place of gathering is indeed in the mountains. So, on Armageddon the armies of the world will gather together and assemble in the mountains of Israel. But which mountains? Exactly where is this battle to be fought? To answer this question one needs to search the Scriptures and study those passages that call for an end times battle in the mountains of Israel. According to the details in Revelation, this end times battle: a) should take place in the mountains; b) occur on the great day of God Almighty (Revelation 16:14); c) involve the nations of the world being gathered together (Revelation 16:14-16); d) involve God’s wrath destroying these armies (Seventh Trumpet – Revelation 11:18, Seventh Vial – Revelation 16:19); and, e) involve great hail, a great earthquake, mountains not being found (disappearing), islands fleeing, and fire engulfing the Earth (Revelation 11:18-19 and 16:18-21).
    The end times battle that meets all of these criteria is the battle described in Ezekiel 38-39 of the Old Testament. Five different times Ezekiel 38-39 makes reference to a great battle in the mountains: 1) Ezekiel 38:8 says, “. . . in the latter years thou shalt come . . . gathered out of many people against the mountains of Israel . . .”, 2) Ezekiel 38:21 says, “And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains . . .,” 3) Ezekiel 39:2 says, “I will . . . bring thee upon the mountains of Israel,” 4) Ezekiel 39:4 says, “Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel . . . ,” and 5) Ezekiel 39:17 Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel.” Note the repeated theme of an enemy gathering or assembling in the mountains, just as har mageddon means a “mountain assembling of troops.” Clearly, these verses from Ezekiel contain the same theme of troops gathering and assembling themselves for battle as Revelation 16:14-16.

    Where does Armageddon take place?
    Now, analysis of the Scriptures has it made clear that the battle of Ezekiel 38-39 and the battle of Armageddon are one and the same. We have looked at which end time country or political conglomerate Magog represents. The next question is where this battle may take place? Ezekiel 38-39 repeatedly refers to a battle in the mountains, and Armageddon literally means a “mountain rendezvous of troops.” Analysis of Scripture reveals a specific mountain location; it is clear that this great battle would be at Mount Hermon, not at the hill of Megiddo as popularly thought.
    As noted earlier, in Hebrew names often give information about the place being named. In Hebrew chermon (word #2768 in Strong’s Concordance) means “sacred” or “sanctuary” or “asylum.”28 So as “Armageddon” (in the context of the armies of the world that are to gather in the mountains) should be translated as a “mountain rendezvous of troops” (#4023 in Strong’s Concordance); “Mount Hermon” (in the context of the Jews fleeing these invading armies) should be translated as “sacred mountain” or “mountain asylum.” This makes Mount Hermon a sacred mountain, a mountain of asylum or sanctuary. So in the Hebrew words har maggedon and chermon we have a “mountain rendezvous of troops” taking place at the “mountain asylum” to which Jews have fled. (The Jews taking refuge on rugged Mount Hermon, which is full of caves and hiding places [Song of Solomon 4:8] is not unlike the Afghanis who took refuge in the mountains after Russia invaded the country in 1979.)
    Mount Hermon is a massive mountain on Israel’s northern border with Lebanon. The highest of Mount Hermon’s three distinctive peaks is called Mount Zion (Sion) (Deuteronomy 4:48, 3:8, 9 and Psalm 125:1 and 133:3). This is why scripture sometimes refers to this battle as taking place at Mount Zion or Zion (Sion). For example, Isaiah 34:1-10 tells how the “indignation of the Lord” will be upon all nations and their armies to utterly destroy them, and “the mountains shall be melted with their blood,” on the “day of the Lord’s vengeance” and “the controversy of Zion, and the streams (‘torrents’ -Interlinear) thereof shall be turned into pitch . . . .” “The streams (torrents) thereof” being turned into pitch tells us this is the Mount Zion of well watered Mount Hermon which has a number of streams on it, not the small hill in the southwest part of arid Jerusalem that is also called Mount Zion. The streams thereof (including the N. Sion, Banias, N. Avar, and N. Guvta) being turned into pitch (as a reference to molten rock or lava flowing down the streambeds) speaks of a volcanic eruption to take place on the “day of the Lord’s vengeance.” 29
    Under the Biblical principles of Ecclesiastes 1:9 and 3:15 where there is “no new thing under the sun,” and “that which is to be hath already been” there is Biblical precedent for the armies of the nations coming to fight against Israel and their defeat in the mountains of Israel, specifically at Hermon and Zion. On the other hand, there is no precedent for Israel having won a victory at Megiddo. It was “under Hermon” that God came to the rescue when Joshua won a great victory against a multinational force (Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, and Hivites) gathered together against Israel in the large valley south of Mount Hermon (Joshua 11:1-6). Joshua 11:3 and 7, 8 tell how the Lord “delivered” the armies gathered together into the hand of Israel who chased and smote them from the valley of Mizpah at the foot of Mount Hermon “unto great Zidon” (Zion), which as noted earlier is Mount Hermon’s highest peak. {Excerpts from http://www.thecometsofgod.com. which has many free downloads and links] Also see my blog http://www.newscientificevidenceforgod.com

  20. David says:

    Dirk,

    Thanks for responding. But I see one more passage that suggest that the Gog and magog of revelation in chapter 20 is not the same battle as in Ezekiel, but it is mentioned only as a reference point that satan is just trying to repeat his first failure.

    And that is the passage where in Ezekiel 38:20 where God says that “and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence”, which, taken in context of the passage, meaning God wasn’t on the earth in person yet, but is “now” showing up. Then contrast that with Rev.20, where he has already been here for a thousand years.

  21. Mark Johnston says:

    than

  22. Dirk says:

    “taken in context of the passage, meaning God wasn’t on the earth in person yet, but is “now” showing up. ”

    That’s a Christological question, in most part.

    I will answer by showing that, in fact, Revelation 21 makes it clear that God lives with His people AFTER the thousand year reign of Christ:
    “Revelation 21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.”

    So, in fact, this rather confirms that Ezekiel 38 is the same battle as the Gog and Magog battle in Revelation 20.

  23. […] matters. As Jesus said to His disciples, ‘behold I have told you ahead of time.’” Source – Joel’s Trumpet. Share this:ShareFacebookTwitterStumbleUponRedditDiggEmailPrintLinkedInLike this:LikeBe the first […]

  24. Mark Johnston says:

    Hi Joel
    Thank you for your gracious and honest response, it speaks well of your integrity and character. I do have one point of contention with your theology. Should I include it here in the comments section or write a separate email as it will take a page or two. Keep up the great work. By the way our home group has ben watching the four part series ‘The return is near’. It has been a great blessing. God bless. Mark.

  25. Joel says:

    Mark,

    E-mail might be easier. Bless you.

  26. Steve says:

    How can a Muslim anti-Christ get away with giving Jews the permission to build a new Temple!?

  27. Joel says:

    It would be no different than any number of previous treaties that Israel has made with Muslim leaders in the past, such as Yasser Arafat. Its very simple to envision for anyone who is familiar with the history and nature of politics and religion in the region. All we would need is a powerful leader who emerges in the region, possessing sufficient political capitol to promise, on one side, the Jews that they may freely share the Temple Mount, so long as they agree to a two-state solution with a shared Jerusalem. On the other hand, they would demand that the surrounding hostile neighbors accept this, in exchange for a Palestinian nation. Thus it is a promise of “peace and security”. The same kind that Israel has falsely accepted numerous other times throughout her history, both in ancient times and in the modern era.

    Blessings

    Have you seen this article? http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/106055/

  28. Joel, I was recently directed towards the Elder Paisos, and his prophecies. I see, at the very least, partial backing of an Islamic Antichrist, and beast.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4qpT_ow3sc says a lot.

    Thanks.

  29. Joel says:

    David,

    I’ve read quite a bit about Mt Athos and Fr. Paisios over the years. Astoundingly beautiful. I have a standing invite to get a personal tour of Athos actually. That said, I have a hard time seeing many of things Fr. Paisios predicted in this video. I would be shocked to see Turkey fall as he speaks of. God knows best and time will tell.

    Blessings

  30. Is it possible that what Fr. Paisios refers to is immediate, in that it isn’t the final word.

    I can see the Kremlin protecting its interests by siding with Damascus & Teheran, and being ticked off at Ankara.

    Stranger things have happened.

    Blessings.

  31. Joel says:

    David,

    Of course it is possible. Fr. Paisios was of course, a man of prayer far more than myself. Nevertheless, only time will tell.

    Blessings

  32. Thank you Joel, for it is possible that Fr. Paisos was referring to what is on the under-card (I am using a boxing reference), and other stuff will happen later, like what you and Walid Shoebat wrote in “God’s war on terror”.

    I am also struck that two or more faces, or schools, of history overlap, (Max Dimont does an excellent job of identifying faces or schools of history in “Jews, God & History), as well as Sphere sovereignty which was communicated by the Dutch Prime Minister & Theologian, whose last name was van Kuypers.

    I cite this column as supportive of that assertion: http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/10/05/will-egypt-seize-libya-for-its-oil/

    Blessings.

  33. […] Gog of Magog: Destroyed on the Mountains of Israel? | Joel’s Trumpet Bron: http://www.wimjongman.nl Vrede zij u, Henk http://www.weeswaakzaam.com Posted by Henk […]

  34. dee says:

    Is the picture copyright?

  35. Joel says:

    It is just pulled it off a Google image search.

  36. Ted says:

    Joel,
    Went through all the “mountains of Israel” passages in Ezekiel. I’d say you pretty much nailed it. I’m a little ticked that you’re taking flack on this point from well known prophecy folks. My carnal tendency would be to wanna beat this information into some of those thick skulls.

  37. Terry Turner, says:

    On Wednesday morning (Spanish time so 7 or 8 hours ahead of you in the US) I iwll be leaidng a Bible study which I am preparing on Eezekiel 38 and 39. My understanding is that Ezekiel is talking about the Gog Magog conflict but that Armageddon in Revelations 20 is a seperate event after the milenium. Or is Ezekiel 38,39 actually Armageddon and Revelatiuon 20 the final conflict? With so many opposign viiews it can get confusing.

  38. Joel says:

    Ezekiel’s Gog is another name for the Antichrist.

    Ezekiel 38-39 describes the broad period of time beginning with the idea being planted in the mind of Gog to invade Israel, and concludes with the destruction of Gog and his armies, all of Israel being restored to the land, and all of Israel being saved. And so the destruction of Gog and his armies is described in Revelation 19 which is typically viewed as the Antichrist and his destruction at Armageddon. Both chapters conclude with the beast and birds feasting on the flesh of the armies.

    Revelation 20 on the other hand is a distinct event the occurs a thousand years after at the end of the millennium.

  39. terry says:

    Thansk Joel. That helps make it a lot clearer. I used to think I understood all this. lol

  40. terry says:

    Joel, you say it says in Daniel 11 that the antichrist will come against Jerusalem when they feel secure and safe btu I can´t fidn it in Daniel 11.

  41. Joel says:

    “In his place a despicable person will arise, on whom the honor of kingship has not been conferred, but he will come in a time of tranquility and seize the kingdom by intrigue. (Daniel 11:21 NASB)

    “He will be succeeded by a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty. He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue. (V. 21 NIV)

    In a time of tranquility he will enter the richest parts of the realm, and he will accomplish what his fathers never did, nor his ancestors; he will distribute plunder, booty and possessions among them, and he will devise his schemes against strongholds, but only for a time. (v. 24 NASB)

    When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses—but only for a time. (v. 24 NIV)

  42. terry says:

    Thanks I use the One New man translation mainly and I didn´t intepret “tranquility” as them feeling safe but I guess it does mean that.

Leave a reply