6 Reasons Why Gog is the Antichrist / Beast

Joel Richardson WND

For years, students of Bible prophecy have been taught that “Gog,” spoken of in Ezekiel 38 and 39, cannot be the same as the Antichrist/Beast spoken of in the New Testament. Among the reasons set forth to argue that the two cannot be the same, none carry any weight.

In fact, any examination of the text will establish that the two are, in fact, one and the same individual. If this is the case, however, this changes everything within the world of popular biblical prophecy. If it can be shown that Gog is the Antichrist/Beast, then it is also clear that the Antichrist and his armies are from the Middle East and not Europe, as is popularly taught. But more importantly, it means that until Jesus returns, Islam is not going away. Instead of being a system of belief that is about to be “eliminated,” as so many actually claim, Islam represents the single greatest challenge that the church will ever face. What then are some of the reasons to view Gog and the Antichrist/Beast as one and the same character?

The answer lies in the specific results of the destruction of Gog and his armies as detailed within the Scriptures. When we turn to Ezekiel 38 and 39, we find that as a direct result of the destruction of Gog and his armies, the following six events take place:

God’s name will never again be profaned (Ezekiel 39:7)

I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD. I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the LORD am the Holy One in Israel. It is coming! It will surely take place, declares the Sovereign LORD. This is the day I have spoken of. – Ezekiel 39:6-8

How could it be said that from that day forward, the LORD will “no longer let [His] holy name be profaned” literally right before the Antichrist and his worldwide movement of blasphemy erupt throughout the earth? Not only would this make the LORD a liar, but also impotent. Clearly, when the LORD says that His name would no longer be profaned or blasphemed, it is speaks of the time when the Antichrist and his blasphemous hoards are silenced, at the end of his brief reign of arrogance and profanity.

The surviving Gentile nations will come to a saving knowledge of God (Ezekiel 39:6-7)

In keeping with the LORD’s many promises to someday bring the many Gentile nations of the earth fully to Himself (Isaiah 11:9, 60:14, Psalm 22:27), as a direct result of the destruction of Gog and his armies, the LORD says that, “the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel” (Ezekiel 39:7). Some have attempted to diminish the significance of this statement, treating it as a shallow intellectual acknowledgment of God. But this doesn’t nearly do justice to language of the passage. How can it be said that the nations come to know and acknowledge that the LORD God, the Holy One in Israel, is the one and only true God, at a time immediately before they all come together to blaspheme His name, invade His land and kill His people? This simply wouldn’t make any sense. This passage only makes sense if it occurs at the end of the great tribulation, not at the beginning.

The captives of Israel will be delivered (Ezekiel 39:25-28)

After the destruction of Gog and his armies, those Jews who were previously held captive among the Gentile nations will be all delivered – every single last one. According to the text, every living Jew will return to the land of Israel. There is simply no way that this event could be placed just before the time when Jesus said many would “fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations”. (Luke 21:24). Zechariah says that half of the city of Jerusalem will be “exiled” (14:2). So when God says that not a single Jewish captive will remain in exile anymore, that all will be returned from that day forward, this can only be a reference to the time when Jesus returns and delivers the Jewish captives from among the Gentile nations.

God will pour out His Spirit on Israel (Ezekiel 39:29)

Not only will the LORD deliver the Jewish captives from among the nations, but He also promises to pour out His Spirit on them. Again, this occurs immediately after the destruction of Gog and his hoards. A parallel passage is found in Isaiah, who says:

“A Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,” declares the LORD. “As for Me, this is My covenant with them,” says the LORD: “My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring’s offspring,” says the LORD, “from now and forever.” – Isaiah 59:19-20

In very similar language, other prophets also spoke of this final outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Jewish people in the context of the return of the Messiah (cf. Zech 12:10). Any claim that the grand outpouring of the Spirit of God on Israel precedes the coming of the Antichrist results in “prophecy chaos.” The only way that this event can be reconciled with the Scriptures is if it occurs at the end of the great tribulation when the Messiah returns.

The survivors of Israel will come to know the LORD forevermore (39:22)

In accordance with the LORD pouring out His Holy Spirit on the whole house of Israel, Ezekiel also states that after the destruction of Gog and his hoards, the long awaited national salvation and redemption of all Israel will finally take place.

John the Apostle spoke of what it means to know the LORD: “And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (John 17:3). Any claim that the national salvation of Israel, their coming to know the LORD forevermore, “from that day forward” takes place several years before the return of the Messiah is simply not possible. The only way one can do this passage any justice and see it align with numerous other biblical passages is to see it as the grand capstone of the final seven years. According to the Scriptures, the salvation of Israel will occur when their Messiah arrives.

Israel will dwell securely in their land forevermore (Ezekiel 39:26-28)

Finally, as a direct result of the destruction of Gog and his invading armies, all of Israel is fully restored to their land forevermore. As Old Testament scholar Daniel L. Block comments concerning this passage:

Ezekiel’s declaration that not a single individual will be left behind when Yahweh restores his people is without parallel in the OT. Yahweh’s restoration is not only total, however, it is permanent. He promises never again to hide his face from his people.

How anyone can place this event before the time when the Antichrist would invade Israel, trample upon Jerusalem and many of its inhabitants is simply beyond explanation. The only way that these events can be properly understood is in the context of the return of Jesus and the destruction of all of the enemies of the LORD and His people.

Because all of these descriptions can only be applied to the time of the return of Jesus and the establishment of His messianic kingdom, it is impossible that Gog and his armies are anything other than the Antichrist and his armies. In my new book, “Mideast Beast: The Scriptural Case For an Islamic Antichrist,” not only is this prophecy examined in careful detail, but also the massive prophetic implications of Gog as the Antichrist. As I said, within the world of popular biblical prophecy, this absolutely changes everything. It is time to begin working through the dramatic implications.

66 Responses to 6 Reasons Why Gog is the Antichrist / Beast

  1. Joel says:

    If Muslims are not against Jews, then why did Muhammad allegedly prophesy that the Muslims would not see the day of resurrection unless they slaughter all Jews? There was no nation of Israel then. Why did he slaughter or drive out every Jew from Arabia?

    Your ignorance has blinded you.

    Jesus is a Zionist who will return specifically to defend Zionists against the right to live in Israel and to defend themselves. Here is Isaiah’s description of the Return of Jesus:

    Draw near, O nations, to hear; and listen, O peoples! Let the earth and all it contains hear, and the world and all that springs from it.

    Isa 34:2 For the LORD’S indignation is against all the nations, And His wrath against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to slaughter.

    Isa 34:3 So their slain will be thrown out, And their corpses will give off their stench, And the mountains will be drenched with their blood.

    Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.

    Isa 34:5 For My sword is satiated in heaven, Behold it shall descend for judgment upon Edom And upon the people whom I have devoted to destruction.

    Isa 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, It is sated with fat, with the blood of lambs and goats, With the fat of the kidneys of rams. For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah And a great slaughter in the land of Edom.

    Isa 34:7 Wild oxen will also fall with them And young bulls with strong ones; Thus their land will be soaked with blood, And their dust become greasy with fat.

    Isa 34:8 For the LORD has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

    Read that last verse again and let it sink in.

    You can choose to listen to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories or align yourself with Jesus. Its your choice. You’ve been forewarned.

  2. Perry Brown says:

    The Apostle Peter, in his second letter, reminds the saints the basis of his apostolic teaching on Christ and His power, which was not based upon cunningly devised fables, but rather on the eyewitness of His majesty and glory (2 Peter 1:16-18). In Peter’s days many false teachings were coming about regarding Jesus and His works, so that so, many of the apostles were in deep need to confront those false teachings, which are very well laid out in their epistles, canonized in the Holy Bible.

    Since then, and specially in modern days, many false teachings are taking over the mindsets of many godly saints, some of the same old, some newer ones. These false teachings are found in various doctrinal topics. A specific one I would like to highlight is that in the topic of eschatology. I want to be humble, and at the same time be bold, to make a statement that many eschatological systems should be considered, likewise to the definition of Peter, cunningly devised fables. For some years I have come to the conclusion that some eschatological systems of thought, such as dispensational teaching, amillennialism, replacement theology, any many more, are in fact cunningly devised fables or cleverly invented stories. Most recently, I also came to the conclusion that the whole Roman Revived or European end-time centric evil empire of the Antichrist is in fact one more of these cunningly devised fables.

    Once one gets caught by the webs of these cunningly devised fables and is not able to unlock his or hers mindsets outside the teaching, further and deeper he needs to go on and continue validating such teaching by amending other variables to these fables or stories. One of the most popular and current amendments to the Roman/European/Western view of the Antichrist and his kingdom/system/religion is the understanding of prophecies, such as Ezekiel 38 and 39, in order to make it possible for the coming of the Antichrist within such structure, despite the overwhelming scriptural evidence that these chapters are prophesying the same story that all of the other OT prophets did and bear witness to the same events which John saw and recorded in the Book of Revelation.

    These cunningly devised fables are like a snowball, the more it rolls down the hill, the bigger it gets. In order to maintain their logical system of thought, many amend with many other prophetic scriptures and distort their actual meaning.

    In the days we live in, we are in a great need of apostolic teaching that will confront ideas and ideologies that are backing up many false teaching. I believe Joel and many others, including Walid, are doing a great job on confronting many of these wrong ideas about Bible prophecy. In specific, Joel has really got to the point regarding Ezekiel 38 and 39. There is a very sinister attack, which I believe is a spiritual one, on truth regarding the correct identification of the Antichrist’s system/kingdom/religion.

    Perry Brown

  3. Joel Varner says:

    Amen Joel! I would just like to add…

    Zechariah 1:14-17 NET

    Turning to me, the messenger then said, “Cry out that the Lord who rules over all says, ‘I am very much moved for Jerusalem and for Zion. But I am greatly displeased with the nations that take my grace for granted. I was a little displeased with them, but they have only made things worse for themselves.
    “‘Therefore,’ says the Lord, ‘I have become compassionate toward Jerusalem and will rebuild my temple in it,’ says the Lord who rules over all. ‘Once more a surveyor’s measuring line will be stretched out over Jerusalem.’ Speak up again with the message of the Lord who rules over all: ‘My cities will once more overflow with prosperity, and once more the Lord will comfort Zion and validate his choice of Jerusalem.’”

    Zechariah 2:4-5, 10-13 NET

    and said to him, “Hurry, speak to this young man as follows: ‘Jerusalem will no longer be enclosed by walls because of the multitude of people and animals there. But I (the Lord says) will be a wall of fire surrounding Jerusalem and the source of glory in her midst.’”
    “Sing out and be happy, Zion my daughter! For look, I have come; I will settle in your midst,” says the Lord. “Many nations will join themselves to the Lord on the day of salvation, and they will also be my people. Indeed, I will settle in the midst of you all.” Then you will know that the Lord who rules over all has sent me to you. The Lord will take possession of Judah as his portion in the holy land and he will choose Jerusalem once again. Be silent in the Lord’s presence, all people everywhere, for he is being moved to action in his holy dwelling place.

    Zechariah 8:2-8, 20-23 NET

    “The Lord who rules over all says, ‘I am very much concerned for Zion; indeed, I am so concerned for her that my rage will fall on those who hurt her.’ The Lord says, ‘I have returned to Zion and will live within Jerusalem. Now Jerusalem will be called “truthful city,” “mountain of the Lord who rules over all,” “holy mountain.”’ Moreover, the Lord who rules over all says, ‘Old men and women will once more live in the plazas of Jerusalem, each one leaning on a cane because of advanced age. And the streets of the city will be full of boys and girls playing. And,’ says the Lord who rules over all, ‘though such a thing may seem to be difficult in the opinion of the small community of those days, will it also appear difficult to me?’ asks the Lord who rules over all.
    “The Lord who rules over all asserts, ‘I am about to save my people from the lands of the east and the west. And I will bring them to settle within Jerusalem. They will be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and righteousness.’
    The Lord who rules over all says, ‘It will someday come to pass that people – residents of many cities – will come. The inhabitants of one will go to another and say, “Let’s go up at once to ask the favor of the Lord, to seek the Lord who rules over all. Indeed, I’ll go with you.”’ Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord who rules over all and to ask his favor. The Lord who rules over all says, ‘In those days ten people from all languages and nations will grasp hold of – indeed, grab – the robe of one Jew and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”

    Zechariah 9:1-10, 14-16 NET

    An oracle of the word of the Lord concerning the land of Hadrach, with its focus on Damascus:
    The eyes of all humanity, especially of the tribes of Israel, are toward the Lord, as are those of Hamath also, which adjoins Damascus, and Tyre and Sidon, though they consider themselves to be very wise. Tyre built herself a fortification and piled up silver like dust and gold like the mud of the streets! Nevertheless the Lord will evict her and shove her fortifications into the sea – she will be consumed by fire. Ashkelon will see and be afraid; Gaza will be in great anguish, as will Ekron, for her hope will have been dried up. Gaza will lose her king, and Ashkelon will no longer be inhabited. A mongrel people will live in Ashdod, for I will greatly humiliate the Philistines. I will take away their abominable religious practices; then those who survive will become a community of believers in our God, like a clan in Judah, and Ekron will be like the Jebusites. Then I will surround my temple to protect it like a guard from anyone crossing back and forth; so no one will cross over against them anymore as an oppressor, for now I myself have seen it.
    Rejoice greatly, daughter of Zion!
    Shout, daughter of Jerusalem!
    Look! Your king is coming to you:
    he is legitimate and victorious,
    humble and riding on a donkey –
    on a young donkey, the foal of a female donkey.
    I will remove the chariot from Ephraim
    and the warhorse from Jerusalem,
    and the battle bow will be removed.
    Then he will announce peace to the nations.
    His dominion will be from sea to sea
    and from the Euphrates River to the ends of the earth.
    Then the Lord will appear above them, and his arrow will shoot forth like lightning; the Lord God will blow the trumpet and will sally forth on the southern storm winds. The Lord who rules over all will guard them, and they will prevail and overcome with sling stones. Then they will drink, and will become noisy like drunkards, full like the sacrificial basin or like the corners of the altar. On that day the Lord their God will deliver them as the flock of his people, for they are the precious stones of a crown sparkling over his land.

    God is a Zionist. Jesus is a Zionist. Muhammad was an anti-Semite who didn’t know a thing about the one true God, Yahweh. Islam is a polemic attack against the Lord but He will destroy it completely at His second coming when He casts Al-Mahdi and his followers into the pit. Repent and believe on the Son of Man its too late. Kiss the Son lest He become angry.

  4. Joel Varner says:

    Before its too late*

  5. Joel Varner says:

    WakeUp,

    You may not be against Christians and Jews but your fellow Muslims are. Look at Egypt, Nigeria, Indonesia, Morroco, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Yemen, etc. Any country that has a majority Muslim population murders and oppresses non-Muslims.

    The Qur’an is full of hatred attacks against Christians and Jews. Muhammad himself was a genocidal maniac who beheaded 600-800 Jewish men and kidnapped their wives and children.

    Muhammad was a deceived man who was used as a pawn by Satan. Even Muhammad thought he was possessed when that spirit first showed up and cried, “Ikra!” Muhammad wouldn’t recite until the spirit almost choked him to death and even afterwards Muhammad was planning on committing suicide by jumping off of a cliff because he thought he was a possessed poet. He was.

    Allah is a god of hate, falsehood and perversion. Your god condones the murder of apostates, unbelievers, and the amputation of theives. He also hates women with a passion. Your god is a lover of death and destruction who promises his followers an eternity of perverted sin, drunkenness and the consumption of unclean food. He is a theif and a liar who’s end will be fire.

    Don’t try to spin your religion on us. We’ve studied it ourselves and won’t be a fool to your agenda. Leave your perverse religion and follow Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, the King of Zion, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Son of the Most High God. You’re deceiving and being deceived simultaneously. Come home to Jesus. Come into the Light. Taste and see that the Lord is good!

  6. ruel arcangel says:

    You hit the bullseye Joel. On 911 all the Muslim people in saudi Arabia were shouting “death to America !!!, death to Israel. ” Now isn’t that enough proof that Islam is not only against Zionism as this guy is telling us, but against the Jews and Judaism & Christianity. Foreign workers in saudi Arabia cannot obtain a visa to Israel as it is forbidden.

  7. Joel says:

    Agreed all.

  8. RichAsher777 says:

    Great post Joel, preach the truth.

  9. Sharon says:

    Wake up you really need to “wake up” before it IS TOO LATE. Don’t be amongst the hoards that Satan takes to the pit with him. Look at the truthful words Joel quoted from God’s word and THINK about it rationally. Wake up indeed.

  10. Marcus Dorsey says:

    Joel,

    Lamb and Lion Ministries posted a comment on the WND site. They basically just posted the same old tired rehashed boilerplate arguments as to why Gog is not Antichrist. I commented that both Nathan Jones and Dave Reagan didn’t have the courage to debate you publicly about this. It’s sad to be honest that they see their arguments as carrying any substance. Did Nathan ever respond to your challenge to debate and I do not now about it?

  11. Joel says:

    I didn’t “challenge” him to a debate, but simply invited him to discuss this issue publicly. I would even do a written debate. But no, of course he would not respond. No one can defend this case in public.

    I asked Nathan a very simple question; if he agreed with my comments pertaining to Egypt’s absence from Psalm 83. He completely ignored my question and instead, copied and pasted a long article arguing why he believes Gog is not Antichrist. But why would I post an article of his, when he cannot show enough common courtesy to answer a simple question?

  12. Jonas V says:

    I wonder why there’s no public debates on this issue yet. I haven’t seen one being made. I know you can handle the debate both in substance and in good manner more than Reagan and company who seems to lack grace and wisdom on the topic. Publicly debating the identity of the anti-christ may be ridiculous to some but when this big antichrist system is at the world today and making its deception through Chris-lam, islamic conversion and intimidation its better to inform and warn christian about this, which include dismantling a wrong notion to its face.

  13. Marcus Dorsey says:

    Joel,

    So Rapture Forums posted another comment on World Net Daily linking to an article he wrote about your article. Its so sad to see him try to rationalize his position that is in such clear conflict with what the BIble says. I actually think that if people read his article, it will convince them of your case.

  14. Ahmed says:

    Hi Author,

    Just for your own culture,
    In Islam, according to Prophet’s narrations, the beast is something, Gog is something else, and the AntiChrist is something else too.

    The beast is a talking animal, that when it encounters a human, it tells him if he is to go to Paradise or to Hell.

    God has the knowledge of the past and the future.

    Gog is a people. actually it is Gog and Magog, they are very very bad humans, that once in the past, one of God’s prophets has surrounded and confined into a limited place of the earth by using iron. They will be released one day, and will cause a great harm to us.

    finally the anti-christ, is a man of great power but also a man of disbelief and kufr, this man will pretend to be Jesus Christ, then will claim deity but then Jesus christ will kill him after God sends him back to earth.

    This is much more simpler to grasp.

  15. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, everything in Islam is wrong. Your Al-Mahdi is actually the Anti-Christ and the true Messiah, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is your Dajjal.

  16. Barnabas says:

    Ahmed,

    Thanks for sharing that information. I believe you have set forth the Muslim understanding of Gog and Magog accurately.

    Of course, we do not accept that understanding but believe in what the Hebrew prophets have said concerning this war and related events.

    Please let me suggest that you read Joel Richardson’s books and learn the truth about the identity of Jesus the Messiah.

    May God guide you in all things.

  17. Ahmed says:

    Joel V.

    Waw ! OK that’s according to you. Interesting. Chocking. Confusing.

  18. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, Jesus Christ, according to the Hebrew Scriptures, is the JEWISH Messiah. Jesus is returning to destroy Israels enemies and to set up His Kingdom in Jerusalem. When He returns He is going to throw Al-Mahdi and the false prophet into the pit. He is going to destroy the revived Caliphate that is going to rise up and oppress the Jews, God’s holy people, and those who keep the true testimony of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Lion of the Tribe of JUDAH. He will destroy Al-Mahdi with the breath of His mouth.

    Why do you think Islam teaches that Al-Dajjal will be a Jew who goes around fighting the enemies of the Jews? You’re on the wrong side.

    Muhammad was a deceived man who was used as a puppet of Satan. Look at how vile and disgusting he was. He was a violent, sexual deviant megolamaniac. He was NOT a prophet of YHVH. He wasn’t even Jewish, the Chosen line of the Prophets! He was an Arabian false prophet.

    Look at the horrible things he taught!!!

    Quran (2:191-193) – “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.”

    Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you,and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.”

    Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”

    Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.”

    Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves… (48:29)

    Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29

    Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

    Verse 5:60 even says that Allahtransformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. Thisis echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65.

    A hadith (Bukhari 54:524) says that Muhammad believed rats to be “mutated Jews” (also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).

    Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than the demons who believein Muhammad.

    According to Islamic law, non-Muslims may be owned as property by Muslims, but – in keeping with Islam’s supremacist message – a fellow Muslim should never be (unless they convert to Islam after enslavement). Even Christiansand Jews are not considered fullyhuman in that the penalty for killing one of them is limited to one-third of the compensation due for unintentionally killing a Muslim.

    He does not love the unbelievers (30:45)

    O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

    O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

    Jews are also cursed by Allah(5:13), in one of his final pronouncements. The Quran goes on to assure Muslims that Jews are wicked (4:160-162) – so wicked, in fact, that they have somehow managed to do the impossible(18:27) and alter the word of Allah (2:75). Jews are “fond of lies” and “devour the forbidden” (5:42).

    The Quran assures believers that Jews and Christians have “diseased hearts” (5:52). Allah even takes credit for the enmity between them (5:14). Only Jews and Christianswho submitto Islamic subjugation and pay the Jizya are protected in this world (9:29 & Ibn Ishaq 956).

    Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know (8:60)

    Strive hard (Jihad) against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. (66:9, See also 9:73)

    Recently, Muslims in Yemen CRUCIFIED a man. This is what they put on a sign above his head…

    Qur’an 5:33

    “The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or CRUCIFIED or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.”

    Ahmed, your god Allah is the most hateful, vile being in all of creation. Your prophet Muhammad was a blood-thirsty savage. The true God, YHWH, loves everybody, including His enemies. Jesus suffered and died willingly on a cross so that the judgment of God would be satisfied and we could become His sons and daughters.

    His sons and daughters will spend eternity in His presence worshipping and loving Him and being loved by him. All Allah promises is an eternity of carnal perversion. Allahs promises are empty. Come into the light, Ahmed! Come to the True God, YHWH, through His beloved Son, Jesus. He loves you, Ahmed! His yoke is easy and His burden is light. He will not leave you in doubt and living in utter fear of being rejected by Him because He made a way to impute His righteousness to you when you believe in Him. Not in Isa, who was a deep confusion and contradiction in Muhammad’s mind. Come to the True Savior.

    Joel V.

  19. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed,

    Muhammad didn’t even know God’s name. God revealed Himself through the Scriptures as YHWH, not Allah. Allah was nothing more than Muhammad’s tribe’s chief deity. No Biblical Prophet had ever spoken in the name of Allah. That’s why the Jews immediately rejected his claim of prophethood. Not only was he not of the race of the Prophets (The Jews), he didn’t even know God’s name.

    I know this is hard to hear but we must proclaim the truth. The Qur’an is the unintelligible rantings of a possessed poet. Even Muhammad initially thought he was possessed and tried to committee suicide. Don’t follow him to hello, Ahmed. You were created for greatness and holiness, not slavery and fear.

  20. Joel Varner says:

    Commit*, hell*

  21. Marcus Dorsey says:

    Joel,

    I have been forcing Chris / Rapture Forums over on WND from this article to answer the same questions that he tried to duck out on against you. It was such a slaughter. When this guy is cornered, he literally just lies and makes things up and gets super vile and disgusting.

    But one thing I have been thinking about a lot lately is the warning of Paul who said that in the last days, many would perish and not even find salvation, because they refuse to “love the truth”:

    The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (2Thess 2:9-10)

    When someone is so bound by their own pride that they refuse to acknowledge the truth, even when it is so clearly right in front of them, that they are in grave spiritual danger and even risk eventually falling away entirely. It really makes me want to be on my knees every day asking Jesus for truth and humility to live deep within my heart.

  22. Joel says:

    Marcus,

    The latter portion of your comment is so very true. People only believe truth when they love truth in their hearts. Beyond this, pride and blindness are literally one and the same. Concerning arguing with men like this, I think wisdom would say not to. My experience is that it has always quickly devolved into the aforementioned sinful language and gross name calling that he seems to revel in. A few years ago, during a time when there was a bunch of arguing going on with this group, my site was actually hacked into and someone posted an article bashing my work and calling me a name which would inappropriate to repeat here. This is just not something that you want to encourage. Leave a sinful man to his own devices. Seek the LORD and humility, as you said, and just move on.

    Bless you!

  23. Joel says:

    Joel V,

    Good comments as always.

    Bless you!

  24. Ahmed says:

    @Joel V.

    It is really interesting you know many things.

    here are some replies. I also would say I’m a bit chocked for the stream of informations you have put.

    Quote:
    “Ahmed, Jesus Christ, according to the Hebrew Scriptures, is the JEWISH Messiah.”

    => Yes according to Islam too. He was labelled as a Messiah. we do’nt really know what the exact meaning of that is. What we are sure of is that he is the last prophets from the line of Israel (Yaqub, the son of Isaac P&PBUT).
    Yet he was rejected by his own people, who intented to crucify him but God saved him.

    The islamic messiah is a universal one. He has authority over all the world. Jesus Christ merely comes back to confirm him and guides his people toward him. Also muslims will find it hard to recognize the Universal Messiah, who is Al-mahdi, the Twelve Imam from the Last of Prophets, Mohamed, the beloved of Al Mighty.

    Quote:
    “Al-Dajjal will be a Jew ”

    Not sure about that. There are suppositions I think. But what sure, is that he will be mainly followed by jews. And I personaly understand the reasons for that.

    Finally, there is nothing horrible in what is tought by God in the Quran or in Prophets messages.

    Please concentrate on the following sentence:

    it would be horrible that you would not expect such divine warnings for the unbelievers, knowing there ultimate fate if the die so: Eternal Hell. Jesus Christ! O Mahdi. Ô Mohammed. Ô Abraham. It is eternal Fire for the Unbelievers. A Whole universe was created for us, Planets, Animals, Trees. What the Hell Are you not expecting for those who will disobery the Creator ?

    i’m sorry if i lost my temper. Peace to you.

  25. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, thank you for responding!

    You said,

    ” He was labelled as a Messiah. we do’nt really know what the exact meaning of that is.”

    I know Muslims don’t know what Messiah means. Muhammad called Him Messiah as a meaningless title to attempt gain credence from Christians but it didn’t work because Muhammad knew nothing about Jesus. If you want to know what Jesus being the Messiah means you have to look at the writings of the Hebrew Prophets, they are the ones who prophesied about the Messiah.

    According to the Hebrew Prophets the Messiah is the King of Israel and the Deliverer of the Jews from the oppressive, anti-Semitic nations. According to the Prophet Isaiah the Messiah will also die as an asham (guilt offering) for sin.

    Isaiah 52:13-15 NET

    “Look, my servant will succeed!
    He will be elevated, lifted high, and greatly exalted –
    (just as many were horrified by the sight of you)
    he was so disfigured he no longer looked like a man;
    his form was so marred he no longer looked human –
    so now he will startle many nations.
    Kings will be shocked by his exaltation,
    for they will witness something unannounced to them,
    and they will understand something they had not heard about.

    Isaiah 53:1-12 NET

    Who would have believed what we just heard?
    When was the Lord’s power revealed through him?
    He sprouted up like a twig before God,
    like a root out of parched soil;
    he had no stately form or majesty that might catch our attention,
    no special appearance that we should want to follow him.
    He was despised and rejected by people,
    one who experienced pain and was acquainted with illness;
    people hid their faces from him;
    he was despised, and we considered him insignificant.
    But he lifted up our illnesses,
    he carried our pain;
    even though we thought he was being punished,
    attacked by God, and afflicted for something he had done.
    He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
    crushed because of our sins;
    he endured punishment that made us well;
    because of his wounds we have been healed.
    All of us had wandered off like sheep;
    each of us had strayed off on his own path,
    but the Lord caused the sin of all of us to attack him.
    He was treated harshly and afflicted,
    but he did not even open his mouth.
    Like a lamb led to the slaughtering block,
    like a sheep silent before her shearers,
    he did not even open his mouth.
    He was led away after an unjust trial –
    but who even cared?
    Indeed, he was cut off from the land of the living;
    because of the rebellion of his own people he was wounded.
    They intended to bury him with criminals,
    but he ended up in a rich man’s tomb,
    because he had committed no violent deeds,
    nor had he spoken deceitfully.
    Though the Lord desired to crush him and make him ill,
    once restitution is made,
    he will see descendants and enjoy long life,
    and the Lord’s purpose will be accomplished through him.
    Having suffered, he will reflect on his work,
    he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done.
    “My servant will acquit many,
    for he carried their sins.
    So I will assign him a portion with the multitudes,
    he will divide the spoils of victory with the powerful,
    because he willingly submitted to death
    and was numbered with the rebels,
    when he lifted up the sin of many
    and intervened on behalf of the rebels.”

    This whole passage is showing, in amazing detail, that the Messiah will be killed as an offering for sin, will raise from the dead and will inherit the earth. This prophecy was given hundreds of years before Jesus was incarnated.

    Here is a Psalm of David prophesying Jesus’ death by crucifixion.

    Psalm 22:1-24 NET

    My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?
    I groan in prayer, but help seems far away.
    My God, I cry out during the day,
    but you do not answer,
    and during the night my prayers do not let up.
    You are holy;
    you sit as king receiving the praises of Israel.
    In you our ancestors trusted;
    they trusted in you and you rescued them.
    To you they cried out, and they were saved;
    in you they trusted and they were not disappointed.
    But I am a worm, not a man;
    people insult me and despise me.
    All who see me taunt me;
    they mock me and shake their heads.
    They say,
    “Commit yourself to the Lord!
    Let the Lord rescue him!
    Let the Lord deliver him, for he delights in him.”
    Yes, you are the one who brought me out from the womb
    and made me feel secure on my mother’s breasts.
    I have been dependent on you since birth;
    from the time I came out of my mother’s womb you have been my God.
    Do not remain far away from me,
    for trouble is near and I have no one to help me.
    Many bulls surround me;
    powerful bulls of Bashan hem me in.
    They open their mouths to devour me
    like a roaring lion that rips its prey.
    My strength drains away like water;
    all my bones are dislocated;
    my heart is like wax;
    it melts away inside me.
    The roof of my mouth is as dry as a piece of pottery;
    my tongue sticks to my gums.
    You set me in the dust of death.

    Yes, wild dogs surround me –
    a gang of evil men crowd around me;
    like a lion they pin my hands and feet.

    I can count all my bones;
    my enemies are gloating over me in triumph.
    They are dividing up my clothes among themselves;
    they are rolling dice for my garments.
    But you, O Lord, do not remain far away!
    You are my source of strength! Hurry and help me!
    Deliver me from the sword!
    Save my life from the claws of the wild dogs!
    Rescue me from the mouth of the lion,
    and from the horns of the wild oxen!
    You have answered me!
    I will declare your name to my countrymen!
    In the middle of the assembly I will praise you!
    You loyal followers of the Lord, praise him!
    All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
    All you descendants of Israel, stand in awe of him!
    For he did not despise or detest the suffering of the oppressed;
    he did not ignore him;
    when he cried out to him, he responded.”

    And then there’s the verse from Zechariah saying that when Israel sees their Deliverer they will see the “one whom they pierced” and they will mourn for Him.

    Zechariah 12:10-11 NET

    “I will pour out on the kingship of David and the population of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication so that they will look to me, the one they have pierced. They will lament for him as one laments for an only son, and there will be a bitter cry for him like the bitter cry for a firstborn. On that day the lamentation in Jerusalem will be as great as the lamentation at Hadad-Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.”

    They will see Jesus when He returns and they will mourn over the fact that they rejected him and their ancestors crucified him.

    Now that’s not all the Messiah will do. He will also come back as King of kings and Lord of lords and rescue Israel from the oppression of Al-Mahdi.

    Isaiah 63:1-6 NET

    Who is this who comes from Edom,
    dressed in bright red, coming from Bozrah?
    Who is this one wearing royal attire,
    who marches confidently because of his great strength?
    “It is I, the one who announces vindication,
    and who is able to deliver!”
    Why are your clothes red?
    Why do you look like someone who has stomped on grapes in a vat?
    “I have stomped grapes in the winepress all by myself;
    no one from the nations joined me.
    I stomped on them in my anger;
    I trampled them down in my rage.
    Their juice splashed on my garments,
    and stained all my clothes.
    For I looked forward to the day of vengeance,
    and then payback time arrived.
    I looked, but there was no one to help;
    I was shocked because there was no one offering support.
    So my right arm accomplished deliverance;
    my raging anger drove me on.
    I trampled nations in my anger,
    I made them drunk in my rage,
    I splashed their blood on the ground.”

    Here’s another..

    Psalm 2:1-12 NET

    Why do the nations rebel?
    Why are the countries devising plots that will fail?
    The kings of the earth form a united front;
    the rulers collaborate
    against the Lord and his anointed king.
    They say, “Let’s tear off the shackles they’ve put on us!
    Let’s free ourselves from their ropes!”
    The one enthroned in heaven laughs in disgust;
    the Lord taunts them.
    Then he angrily speaks to them
    and terrifies them in his rage, saying,
    “I myself have installed my king
    on Zion, my holy hill.”
    The king says, “I will announce the Lord’s decree. He said to me:
    ‘You are my son! This very day I have become your father!
    Ask me,
    and I will give you the nations as your inheritance,
    the ends of the earth as your personal property.
    You will break them with an iron scepter;
    you will smash them like a potter’s jar!’”
    So now, you kings, do what is wise;
    you rulers of the earth, submit to correction!
    Serve the Lord in fear!
    Repent in terror!
    Give sincere homage!
    Otherwise he will be angry,
    and you will die because of your behavior,
    when his anger quickly ignites.
    How blessed are all who take shelter in him!”

    This is who the Messiah is and what the Messiah has done and will do. Muhammad didn’t know these things.

    You also said,

    ” Finally, there is nothing horrible in what is tought by God in the Quran or in Prophets messages.”

    If you actually believe that then your conscience has been seared. If you don’t believe crucifying or amputating the arms and legs of your enemies is wrong then you have no heart. If you don’t think that beheading unbelievers is wrong then you have no heart. If you believe amputating the hands of thieves is not wrong then you have no heart. If you believe women are nothing more than walking vaginas that must be covered at all times from head to toe then you have no heart. If you believe Muhammad was a good example by marrying a six year old and having sex with her (Aisha) at nine then you have no heart. If you believe you can have four wives and as many sex slaves as your right hand possesses then you have no heart. If you believe that Jews are forever cursed by Allah then you have no heart. If you believe you must kill apostates then you have no heart. These are all things that the Qur’an and Hadith teach.

    And what about the Hadith that says the Day of Judgment won’t come until you kill the Jews until there are only a few left and the rocks and trees will cry out, “O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me! Come and kill him.”? Are those not horrible teachings?

    Read those verses from the Qur’an that I posted in my previous reply and tell me those aren’t horrible.

    Muhammad didn’t just say, “believe what I’m saying or you’ll go to hell.” He told them he’d kill them and oppress them if they didn’t believe him. I suggest you go back and read the Qur’an, Hadith and Sira and then read the foundational understanding of Sharia. If you accept those teachings as from God then you are utterly deceived.

    Joel V.

  26. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, in regards to Ad-Dajjal being a Jew here is what Islamic scholars have to say…

    Based on various Islamic traditions, Muslims believe that the Dajjal will be Jewish. The title of a book by Muslim author Matloob Ahmed Qasmi, Emergence of the Dajjal, the Jewish King couldn’t make this point more clearly. Imam Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi of the Palestinian Authority articulated the Islamic perspective regarding the expectation of the Jewish people quite well in one of his sermons:

    The Jews await the false Jewish messiah, while we await, with Allah’s help… the Mahdi and Jesus, peace be upon him. Jesus’s pure hands will murder the false Jewish messiah. Where? In the city of Lod, in Palestine. Palestine will be, as it was in the past, a graveyard for the invaders”

    Samuel Shahid, a Christian Arab scholar in his scholarly study of Islamic eschatology says of the Dajjal that he will be, “the embodiment of the Jewish hope and longing. The bulk of his army is recruited from the Jews.”

  27. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, you also said this,

    ” What we are sure of is that he (Jesus) is the last prophets from the line of Israel…)

    Where are any prophecies or text in the Scriptures that say there will ever be a non-Jewish prophet? Why would Yahweh say that a prophet must be a Jew and must speak in His revealed name, YHWH, and then 600 years after Jesus rose from the dead He somehow decided to change His name to Allah and speak through an illiterate man from Arabia who wasn’t a Jew? Where is there any basis for your assertion that there would be non-Jewish prophets after Jesus?

    Here is what Yahweh says about testing prophets,

    Deuteronomy 13.6-8:

    13:6 If anyone secretly entices you–even if it is your brother, your father’s son or your mother’s son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend–saying, “Let us go worship other gods,” whom neither you nor your ancestors have known, 13:7 any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other, 13:8 you must not yield to or heed any such persons.”

    Allah is another god who their ancestors did not know. A prophet must speak in the name of Yahweh, not by some unknown deity.

    Here is another thing Moses said in Deuteronomy,

    18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you shall heed such a prophet. . . . 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command. 18:19 Anyone who does not heed the words that the prophet shall speak in my name, I myself will hold accountable. 18:20 But any prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, or who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded the prophet to speak–that prophet shall die.”

    Muhammad was not raised up from among the people of Israel. According to the Torah, Muhammad would have had to been stoned for speaking in the name of another god, Allah, and trying to lead the Children of Israel astray. Muhammad was no prophet of the True God.

  28. Ahmed says:

    @Joel V.

    Well, well. You are claims about the religion of Islam are full of prejudices.

    Your are confining your faith in a very narrow circle. And I fear to say, it is a racist circle. And that’s why I ask you to study Islam for it is not bounded to any circle and it is a religion for all human kind.

    Quote:
    “Muhammad called Him Messiah as a meaningless title to attempt gain credence from Christians but it didn’t work because Muhammad knew nothing about Jesus.”

    You can excell in making such claims when you reject someone. You are supposing that the Prophet needed the rally of Christians to fulfil his goals. It will also work the same way with other people. But that is not true.

    When God ordered him that the robber should have his arm cut, he just ordered that. Do not tell me he was making things that suits people so they follow him.

    Do not tell me all prohpets should be jews, do not tell me Abraham was a jew too, and do not tell me the true religion should be fit into jewish desires.

    Commandments of Prophets Moses were not observed, so God appointed Jesus to revive them, but people rejected him and THEY WERE CURSED.

  29. Ahmed says:

    When the rules of God say we should cut the hands of the robber, whether you like it or not, that is the rule of God. You will come against it in the same way disbelievers came against prophets for their messages did not fit their interests.
    While other people will strive to make the rule of God the norm.

    Looking at today’s world, what we see is the reign of Positive Law. Law that is designed by people. Those who want to implement the religious law are defamed and opposed.

    If God says we must cut the arm of the robber, the society that obeys God is the one that would implement that. While a society that would say we should put him in jail or force him to pay a sum of money, that is a society outside the circle of religion. A disobedient society.

    When Jesus tell you that usury is a big sin, that what you expect is that people put laws that forbids usuary and remove interests.

    Life is defined as :

    1. Observing Life
    2. understanding we could not have come by chance
    3. discovering the divine revelation to Us
    4. obeying the divine rule and doing good deeds

    5. guiding people and opposing those who misguide them(mainly those who force people to non-divine laws)

  30. Ahmed says:

    I want to add something. The above 5 points should be, to a certain extent be a common thing between believers.

    At least we understand there is a God and we understand, there should be a unique true message containing the clear rules which have to be followed so we can avoid Hell.

    Now, Ok we look at the world and we see confusing religious teachings, then we say this might be true and this might not. But at least, regardless of all, the faith should be there, and the quest for truth should remain as well. Right ?

    If that is true, the ideal situation would be that believers meet to discuss with logic and gather all sources to find out truth, and then all come against false laws and corruption spreading oout, and unnecessary conflicts.

  31. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, thank you for responding! It seems that your true beliefs are finally starting to show. I will tackle each objection you stated.

    “Well, well. You are claims about the religion of Islam are full of prejudices.”

    So you believe that pointing out the horrible violence commanded in the Qur’an is prejudice? I don’t see how that makes sense. I think what you mean to say is you don’t like it when Kafirs point out that Allah and Muhammad were blood thirsty savages.

    “Your are confining your faith in a very narrow circle. And I fear to say, it is a racist circle. And that’s why I ask you to study Islam for it is not bounded to any circle and it is a religion for all human kind.”

    The Hebrew Scriptures were all written by Jews, Ahmed. God revealed Himself to one man, Abraham, and through Isaac He continued to reveal Himself. The election of Isaac isn’t racist, it’s just what God decided. He didn’t choose Ishmael because Ishmael was an illegitimate child of lustful passion. God’s promise of inheritance and covenant were passed on to Isaac. It’s not racist to say that God elected a race of people to reveal Himself through. From Isaac to Jesus, His promises were revealed to Israel by Jews. And the Hebrew Scriptures never say only Jews are allowed to follow Yahweh. The Injil (New Testament) is explicit in saying that the Gospel of the Kingdom is to be preached to all nations, tribes and tongues. You are showing your Biblical ignorance by stating that election is racist.

    “You can excell in making such claims when you reject someone. You are supposing that the Prophet needed the rally of Christians to fulfil his goals. It will also work the same way with other people. But that is not true.”

    You even admitted that Muslims don’t know why Muhammad called Isa the Messiah. The bottom line is that Muhammad didn’t know anything about Jesus and didn’t have any idea of what a Messiah was. Messiah is a Hebrew term from the Hebrew Scriptures that means “Anointed One.” Muhammad was illiterate and ignorant in regards to the Bible and it is clearly seen in the Qur’an and Hadith. He only called Him Messiah because that’s what the Christians called Him.

    “When God ordered him that the robber should have his arm cut, he just ordered that. Do not tell me he was making things that suits people so they follow him.”

    I never said he introduced that despicable law so that people would follow him. He introduced it because he was a crazy, blood thirsty desert pirate who had no compassion on anybody and didn’t want people to steal from him.

    “Do not tell me all prohpets should be jews, do not tell me Abraham was a jew too, and do not tell me the true religion should be fit into jewish desires.”

    I’m not the one saying that, God said it in the Torah. Abraham was a Hebrew, the father of Isaac and grandfather or Jacob. The Jews worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and God revealed Himself through their seed, i.e. the Jews. It’s not my fault God chose the Jews. It is through the Jews that all of the Prophets and the Messiah came. You just hate the election of the Jews because the Qur’an says you must hate Jews.

    “Commandments of Prophets Moses were not observed, so God appointed Jesus to revive them, but people rejected him and THEY WERE CURSED.”

    I agree with you that the Jews weren’t following the Torah. But Jesus DID NOT come to bring them back to the Law. He came to bring in the New Covenant, sealed by His Blood. This New Covenant was prophesied in the Torah by the Prophet Jeremiah…

    “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
    “when I will make a new covenant
    with the people of Israel
    and with the people of Judah.
    32 It will not be like the covenant
    I made with their ancestors
    when I took them by the hand
    to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they broke my covenant,
    though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
    declares the Lord.
    33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
    after that time,” declares the Lord.
    “I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the Lord.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    And here is what Jesus Himself said about the Law.

    Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. ”

    He fulfilled the Law and then made a New Covenant with Israel, requiring new Laws. That’s why He says, “You have heard that it was said to those of old….but I say to you…”

    He wasn’t bring them back to the Mosaic Law.

    And not every single Jew rejected Jesus. The first thousands of Believers were Jews. Peter, James,John, Paul etc.. were all Jews. The Jews were the ones who brought the message of Jesus to the gentiles.

    “When the rules of God say we should cut the hands of the robber, whether you like it or not, that is the rule of God. You will come against it in the same way disbelievers came against prophets for their messages did not fit their interests.
    While other people will strive to make the rule of God the norm.”

    The problem is that God never commanded people to amputate thieves. Allah commanded that but Allah is not God, he is just the pagan moon deity that Muhammad’s tribe worshiped and Muhammad used him for his new religion. The God of the Torah and Injil would never command something so perverse.

    Do me a favor. Since you are a Muslim I want you to see what it looks like when someone gets their hand cut off and I want you to tell me that this is good. (Non-Muslims, please do not watch this, it’s disgusting!)

    http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media.htm

    I also want you to see what it looks like when Muslims crucify a man. Your fellow Muslims recently did this to a man in Yemen. (Again, non-Muslims please do not watch this.)

    http://www.mrctv.org/videos/crucifixion-spy-yemen-ansar-al-sharia

    And then go ahead and find a video of someone being beheaded and tell me a loving God commanded this. These are the commandments and actions of 7th Century pagan savages! You are in such deep deception that you think this is what a loving God would do to his enemies. Look at what Jesus says about how we are to treat enemies, it’s completely antithetical to Muhammad’s perverse teachings.

    Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

    Love for Enemies

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

    Jesus taught His followers to love their enemies and to pray for them, not to amputate their arms and legs, behead them, kill them and crucify them!

    “Looking at today’s world, what we see is the reign of Positive Law. Law that is designed by people. Those who want to implement the religious law are defamed and opposed.”

    When I look at the world today I see Muslims carrying out the most horrible crimes against God and humanity. Muslims are blowing themselves up to kill unbelievers. Muslims are kidnapping, raping and murdering Christians all over the Middle East. Today is the 8th Anniversary of the “Rape Jihad” where Muslims took over a school in Russia, killing over 300 people, and 172 of them were CHILDREN! They repeatedly raped the little girls and women and one Muslim ran out of ammo so he stabbed a baby multiple times to make sure the baby died!

    Muslims have killed over 270 million people in the name of Islam. And you keep killing each other. Sunni’s kill Shi’a’s, Shi’a’s kill Sunni’s and Sunni’s and Shi’a’s both kill Amahdi’s. Islam is always expressed in violence, rape and destruction. Your fellow Muslims are killing Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc all over the world! Islam is a soul destroying ideology that produces violence, sexual perversion and hate. And you call this good????

    “5. guiding people and opposing those who misguide them(mainly those who force people to non-divine laws)”

    You Muslims force Shariah (the most despicable non-Divine Law) over everybody in Muslim countries! Look at the prisoners in Iran who’s only crime was being a Christian! Look at the mentally handicapped 11 year old girl in Christian who was charged with blasphemy for burning paper that supposedly had verses from the Qur’an in them for fuel! Shariah is a savage law that perverts justice!

    “At least we understand there is a God and we understand, there should be a unique true message containing the clear rules which have to be followed so we can avoid Hell.”

    Is the sole purpose of Islam to avoid Hell? God forbid someone believes something just to avoid Hell!!! Jesus teaches that eternal life is knowing God the Father, and Jesus Christ, whom the Father has sent. We Christians have a relationship with God. We Christians know God. We Christians will be spending eternity ruling and reigning with God. All you have to look forward to is an eternity of perverted sex with a bunch of mindless, eternal drunkenness and the eternal consumption of unclean food. This is the most carnal view of heaven I have ever heard. You won’t even experience Allah because Allah is too proud to reveal himself to you. Thank God Allah is a false god and Islam is a false religion!

    Ahmed, Islam has nothing to offer me. Islam is a perversion and Muhammad was a false prophet. Why would you follow a man who thought he was possessed and who taught violence and hate? He knew nothing about the true God and knew nothing about God’s Son, Jesus. He was a puppet used by Satan and you are following him to destruction! Repent and believe in the Son of God and experience eternal life by abiding in the Father and the Son.

  32. Joel Varner says:

    *the 11 year old Christian girl in Pakistan

  33. Joel Varner says:

    You closed your argument with this,

    “If that is true, the ideal situation would be that believers meet to discuss with logic and gather all sources to find out truth, and then all come against false laws and corruption spreading oout, and unnecessary conflicts.”

    Islam is a false religion, teaching false laws, producing horrible corruption and unnecessary conflict around the whole earth. Us Christians come against Islam in the name of Jesus Christ, with the Power of the Holy Spirit and the Truth of God’s Word which He revealed to His servants, the Prophets. We are sending missionaries to Muslim countries in order to snatch Muslims out of the hands of Satan and bring them to the knowledge of God through Jesus Christ so that they may receive adoption as sons and daughters of the Most High and become priests and kings with Him in eternity, sharing in Christ’s inheritance. And you Muslims keep killing us but we’re going to keep coming. Look what God is doing in Iran! Thousands of Iranians are having visions of Jesus and turning to Christianity to experience the Live and Love of God! Jesus is showing up to Muslims in their dreams and through visions all over the world and they are forsaking Islam for the Truth. Jesus has even showed up to groups of Muslims who were gathered together. We even have testimonies of members of Al-Qaeda becoming Christians after a missionary prayed for them and they were physically healed. They threw down their weapons, forsook Al-Qaeda and Islam and invited their families over to tell the Truth, knowing they would be killed. See, Christians are commanded not to kill their enemies. We are commanded to lay down our lives on our enemies behalf. By doing that, God releases His Spirit and sends Revival. The more you Muslims kills us, the more the Holy Spirit will reveal Jesus to Muslims and they will forsake Islam, throw down their weapons, renounce their hate, and spread the Gospel of the Kingdom throughout all the Middle East. And Great is their Reward in Heaven!

    We have nothing to fear from Muslims because you can destroy our bodies but you can’t destroy our souls. And at the Return of Jesus we will be given Resurrected bodies that will never see corruption. So everything that Satan does through Muslims will be turned on their head and mass revival will spread all throughout Islamic countries! Thank God for the faithfulness of His Word and thank God for His Beloved Son Jesus Christ!

  34. Joel Varner says:

    Hey Joel, if this is too off topic for this thread I understand. Just let me know and I’ll stop commenting. Thanks!

    Bless you, brother!

    Joel V.

  35. Ahmed says:

    @Joel V
    Was I canceling my faith to you ?

    You still speaking of horrible violence.
    Well my fellow believer.. What do you say about Hell ? Eternal hell. Do not tell me you do not believe in it, nor you tell me you do not know that some people already booked a ticket for it.
    What do you call Hell ? Is that not extreme violence ? Think about it. Imagine someone in hell. He is being tortured now, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, next month, next year..a torture that never stops. Tell me about it. Describe that to me.

    Yes, it is extreme violence And you acknowledge that. It is an unbelievable violence in the size of responsibility and capability that was awarded to us. You are human. You are not like anything else. God has done all this for you. Either you make it or not. You have no other choice. We do’nt. Either we make all, or fail it the big failure.

    It is not unreasonable then for me to discover some very terrible rules in the Quran that are applicable here in this life before the end of it.

    Quote:
    “The Hebrew Scriptures were all written by Jews, Ahmed.”

    The Quran is directly from your lord by the mouth of an illetrate man. No one wrote it.

    So, the jew wrote Prophet Ishmael an illegitemate child. Well well. We do not have that,
    we rather have divine praises for him in the Quran.
    Now here is what I call racist circle. But at this point, the victim is not Prophet Ishmael or his descendents
    rather you are accusing Prophet Abraham with a big sin. That’s not acceptable.
    Believe in what jews wrote and blind yourself regarding the revelation of Islam.
    Prophet Muhammed knew about Jesus more than you would think. Read the Quran. There is even a whole chapter dedicated to
    his mother. A whole other long chapter related to the House of Imran.
    But Islam came with unprecendented truths about Jesus and it did not fit evry people.
    You accuse me of not liking the divine election of jews. Well sorry I believe in all jewish prophets.
    And my belief did not veil me from believing in Muhammad. It did to you.
    I hate who hate God, be it a jew, be it an arab, be it a roman.

    Quote:
    “Ahmed, Islam has nothing to offer me.”
    Surely it does not offer to you anything when you merely claim that Muhammad was a false prophet.

  36. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, thank you again for responding!

    “Was I canceling my faith to you ?”

    I don’t know what you mean by that but hopefully the Holy Spirit will reveal the Truth and you will, in fact, leave Islam and follow Yahweh and His Son, Jesus. I will be fasting and praying for that to happen!

    “You still speaking of horrible violence.
    Well my fellow believer.. What do you say about Hell ? Eternal hell. Do not tell me you do not believe in it, nor you tell me you do not know that some people already booked a ticket for it.
    What do you call Hell ? Is that not extreme violence ? Think about it. Imagine someone in hell. He is being tortured now, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, next month, next year..a torture that never stops. Tell me about it. Describe that to me.”

    Unlike the Qur’an, the Torah and Injil do not go into graphic detail about Hell. There is no mention of people being rotisseried or hot oil being poured down their throats. Jesus calls it a place of darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth and also says there will be a Lake of Fire. So yes, Hell is a horrible place.

    The problem is that God never told us to make the lives of unbelievers Hell on earth. Jesus taught that we are to love and serve our enemies. Jesus loved His enemies so much that He willingly laid down His life and suffered a horrible death on the Cross. Yahweh raised Jesus from the dead in His vindication of Jesus and Jesus is even now at the right hand of the Majesty of High. We are called to suffer as Christ suffered, being an example to unbelievers of the love of God, expressed through His Son on a Cross. Jesus constantly told His disciples that they must carry their own crosses.

    When Jesus was being arrested by the Jewish Sanhedrin and the Romans, Peter pulled out his sword and struck a man to defend Jesus. Jesus said, “Peter, put away your sword! Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.” Then Jesus healed the man, Malchus, whom Peter had struck.

    Jesus doesn’t want us to hurt our enemies. So when Muhammad tells his followers to kill, torture and subjugate unbelievers, he is not following Jesus or Yahweh. The Injil constantly tells us to love our enemies, pray for those hate us and to bless those that persecute us. Islam could’t be further from the teachings of Jesus.

    “The Quran is directly from your lord by the mouth of an illetrate man. No one wrote it.”

    The Qur’an did not come from Yahweh. Muhammad recited demonic poetry that was dictated to him by a demon. And it’s ridiculous to say that no one wrote the Qur’an, especially considering how unintelligible it is. Surely God knows how to structure a sentence and a thought pattern. There isn’t even any context it the Qur’an. It’s just mindless jabbering.

    To say that the Qur’an has been on a tablet for eternity is to commit Shirk, right? How can there be anything other than God existing eternally? If the Qur’an has existed eternally then God didn’t create the Qur’an and the Qur’an would exist outside of God and would be equal to God. Looks like Muhammad didn’t think that through. So when you say the Qur’an has existed eternally, apart from God (for God didn’t create it if it existed eternally), then you are committing Shirk by giving Allah an eternal partner. Nothing can exist eternally without being God.

    “So, the jew wrote Prophet Ishmael an illegitemate child. Well well. We do not have that,
    we rather have divine praises for him in the Quran.”

    I’m sure you do because the Qur’an isn’t from God. God revealed to Moses that Ishmael was an illegitimate child and that Abraham sinned by having sex with his slave, Hagar, instead of trusting God to bless him with a child through his wife, Sarah. God said he would bless Ishmael but the Covenant and further Revelation would come through the seed of Isaac. Read the Torah and the Injil for yourself.

    Genesis 17:19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.”

    Here’s what the Injil says,

    Galatians 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

    24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

    “Be glad, barren woman,you who never bore a child;
    shout for joy and cry aloud,you who were never in labor;
    because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband.”

    28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.”

    The child of the slave woman Hagar is Ishmael. The son of promise is Isaac. God cannot contradict Himself so the Qur’an, which was written much later than the Torah and Injil, is wrong and cannot be accepted.

    “But at this point, the victim is not Prophet Ishmael or his descendents
    rather you are accusing Prophet Abraham with a big sin. That’s not acceptable.”

    Again, God said through Moses that Abraham sinned by having sex with Hagar. You’re telling God it’s not acceptable to say Abraham sinned? I’ll listen to God rather than man.

    “Prophet Muhammed knew about Jesus more than you would think. Read the Quran. There is even a whole chapter dedicated to
    his mother. A whole other long chapter related to the House of Imran.”

    The Qur’an has a lot to say about Isa. Isa is not the historical and true Jesus. Jesus’ mother Mary was not the sister of Moses and Aaron as the Qur’an states. The Qur’an is full of mistakes because Muhammad couldn’t read so he couldn’t fact check the revelation he was receiving from the demonic spirit.

    “But Islam came with unprecendented truths about Jesus and it did not fit evry people.”

    What unprecedented truths did Islam bring about Jesus? It denies the very things Jesus said about Himself! Jesus said that He had to come and die on the cross to provide atonement for sins. Jesus said He was God. Jesus said that no man can come to the Father but through Him. You don’t know Jesus, Muhammad didn’t know Jesus and Allah is not the God and Father of Jesus.

    Matthew 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

    27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

    30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

    31 Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:

    “‘I will strike the shepherd,
    and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’

    32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”

    In this passage Jesus says that the bread represents His body and the wine represents His blood that will be poured out as an offering for sin. Then He says when He is risen from the dead He will meet them in Galilee.

    Here’s where Jesus said explicitly that He was God,

    John 8:36 “Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!”

    “I AM” is the Divine name of God, YHWH.

    Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.'”

    Jesus claimed the Divine Name for Himself and the Jews picked up stones to stone Him because they said He blasphemed. But He didn’t blaspheme because Jesus is, in fact, God. Here’s what Jesus’ closest companion says about Jesus,

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.”

    This is how the Gospel of John opens and the Word is Jesus. So even Jesus’ closest disciple taught that Jesus was eternally God and created all things. The Qur’an gets this wrong, too!

    “You accuse me of not liking the divine election of jews. Well sorry I believe in all jewish prophets.
    And my belief did not veil me from believing in Muhammad. It did to you.
    I hate who hate God, be it a jew, be it an arab, be it a roman.”

    If you believed in the Jewish Prophets then you would believe Isaac, not Ishmael, was elected and that the Covenant came through Isaac and was fulfilled through Jesus and then Jesus made a New Covenant, as the Prophet Jeremiah said He would, that was sealed by His blood.

    If you believed the Prophets you would believe what Moses said about all Prophets of God being Jewish. You would also believe that no true Prophet would speak in any name besides YHWH.

    If you believed the Prophets then you would be forced to not believe Muhammad was a prophet. Muhammad was not a Jew, Muhammad spoke in the name of a false god (Allah) and he contradicted the revealed Word of God (Torah and Injil) and denied God’s Son.

    If you believed the Prophets then you would believe Jesus and you would forsake Islam. It’s that simple.

    “And my belief did not veil me from believing in Muhammad. It did to you.”

    Of course my belief prevents me from believing in Muhammad. I believe in the Torah and the Injil and Muhammad contradicted both of them and denied the Son of God. Because Muhammad was a false prophet, I wholeheartedly reject him.

    “I hate who hate God, be it a jew, be it an arab, be it a roman.”

    God doesn’t hate anyone. Jesus said if you hate somebody then you’ll be charged with the same sin as if you killed that person. Jesus compares hate with murder.

    Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.”

    So if you hate somebody then you are not following Jesus. Again, Christians are commanded to love their enemies. Allah commands Muslims to hate non-Muslims. Therefore, Allah is a false god.

    “Surely it does not offer to you anything when you merely claim that Muhammad was a false prophet.”

    Ahmed, I’m not merely claiming Muhammad was a false prophet. I’m showing from the Word of God that Muhammad was a false prophet.

    Tell you what, prove to me from the Torah and the Injil that Muhammad was a true prophet. What qualifications that are laid out in the Torah did Muhammad fulfill that would give credence to his prophethood?

    Here’s the bottom line Ahmed,

    You reject the Truth laid out in the Torah.
    You reject the Truth laid out in the Injil.
    You reject the Truth given by the Jewish Prophets.
    You reject the Truth given by Jesus.
    You reject the Truth given by Jesus’ disciples.
    Therefore, you do not worship the God of the Torah and the Injil.
    You do not worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
    You do not worship the God of Moses and the Prophets.
    You do not worship the God of Jesus and His disciples.

    You worship the false god Allah and follow the teachings of the false prophet Muhammad.
    Therefore, you are a pagan.

    You must repent of your unbelief, turn to the Son of God, repent of your sins, accept His atonement for your sins, and abide in Him and preach His Gospel. If you do not believe that Jesus is God and died on a cross for the forgiveness of sins then you will go to hell, Ahmed. I do not say this lightly. This is extremely serious. You have rejected God and Jesus and your only option is hell. Do not follow Muhammad to destruction, Ahmed. Follow Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the Prophets, Jesus and Jesus’ disciples and experience the pure joy of being accepted and loved by the Eternal Majesty on High.

    I do love you Ahmed, but I hate Islam with all of my heart.

    Joel V.

  37. Ahmed says:

    Joel V.

    I do not reject any truths. And I can not just ignore Islam wit all its proof by just claiming Muhammad wad demonized as you claim.
    That is not enough. If Islam is cruel in its rule, I should obey. I am but a slave for the Creator and my reward is exactly accoprding to my obediance, not according to a certain reviledge or racial belonging.

    Quran is very clear, magicallly eloquent and musical, and very rational.

    It says, the previous messages have been altered, that some altered the books and started selling it :

    read this, it is just too much DANGEROUS:

    “Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, “This is from Allah,” that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.”
    Quran Chapter 2, verse 79.

    You want me to take the Torah we have today and other books as the original truth. I’m sorry.

    Quote :
    “Here’s where Jesus said explicitly that He was God,”
    Sorry that is not rational. It is better to understand jesus was but a human, a slave of God sent as a prophet and whom God assisted with miracles.

    You remmeber me when I told you I have personal reasons to believe why jews would be the ones to follow Ad-Dajjal, the False christ.

    You say jesus is God, meaning you expect the appearance of a human form that will say it is God.

    That is exactly what Prophet Muhammad warned us about : the False Christ will claim deity and force people to worship him while :

    ” The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things? (101) Such is Allah, your Lord. There is no God save Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He taketh care of all things. (102) Vision comprehendeth Him not, but He comprehendeth (all) vision. He is the Subtile, the Aware. (103) Proofs have come unto you from your Lord, so whoso seeth, it is for his own good, and whoso is blind is blind to his own hurt. And I am not a keeper over you. (104)”

    Quran Chapter 6.

    So “Vision comprehendeth Him not, but He comprehendeth (all) vision”

    Therefore, God can not be seen. And anybody who say he is God we will kill him.

  38. Joel Varner says:

    Hey Ahmed, thank you for responding again! Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I’ve been at work all day.

    “I do not reject any truths.”

    Yes, you do, Ahmed. You reject the Truth written in the Torah and the Injil. You reject the writings of Moses. You reject the writings of the Prophets. You reject the writings of David and Solomon. You reject the writings of the disciples of Jesus Christ.

    So again Ahmed, yes you do reject Truth.

    ” And I can not just ignore Islam wit all its proof by just claiming Muhammad wad demonized as you claim.”

    What proofs???

    You have still failed to provide any proof that the Qur’an is from the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, the Hebrew Prophets, and Jesus Christ.

    ” If Islam is cruel in its rule, I should obey. I am but a slave for the Creator and my reward is exactly accoprding to my obediance, not according to a certain reviledge or racial belonging.”

    Ahmed, you are a slave to Allah.
    Allah is Satan.
    You are a slave to Satan.

    You have continuously failed to prove that Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. All you have shown is that Allah is the god of Muhammad, which I agree.

    Read the history of Pre-Islamic Arabian religion. Allah was the pagan mood god of Muhammad’s tribe. It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god “al-Ilah” (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah’s shrine was located.

    Muhammad even commanded his followers to pray to al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat!

    “Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and ‘Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

    These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

    What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)”

    Muhammad told the Muslims that Allah’s daughter intercede for Muslims. According to the Qur’an, Muhammad was tricked by Satan and he gave these “Satanic Verses.”

    Not one Hebrew Prophet EVER spoke the words of Satan. Muhammad spoke the words of Satan because Muhammad was possessed by a demon and a demon dictated the Qur’an.

    If Satan could speak through Muhammad about Allah’s daughters then how can you possibly believe anything he says? How do you know the entire Qur’an isn’t from Satan?

    “Quran is very clear, magicallly eloquent and musical, and very rational.”

    You have failed to prove this assertion numerous times. The Qur’an is not clear because there is no context. The Qur’an is not clear because it’s not arranged in chronological order. The Qur’an is not clear because according to the Qur’an, it can only be understood in 7th Century Arabic.

    Does Allah only speak 7th Century Arabic? My God speaks every language and His Word can be translated into any language. My God is much greater than Allah.

    “It says, the previous messages have been altered, that some altered the books and started selling it :

    read this, it is just too much DANGEROUS:”

    Of course it says the previous messages were altered because it contradicts both of the previous messages. But you have no proof that the Torah and the Injil have been corrupted. Was every book corrupted? Was every chapter corrupted? Was every paragraph corrupted? Was every sentence corrupted? Was every word corrupted?

    We have over 25,000 manuscripts of the Injil and they all agree with the clear message. Jesus came to die on a cross for our sins. Jesus claimed to be YHWH. Jesus died on the cross. Jesus rose from the dead in vindication of His claim to be YHWH. His disciples spread His Message to the gentiles.

    We also have the writings of the Early Church Fathers who quote the Scriptures and they even quote exactly what we have in the Injil today.

    We also have the “Isaiah Scroll.” The Isaiah Scroll was written 200 years before Jesus was born. It contains the prophecies about the Messiah being killed as a guilt offering for sin, being rejected by His people, and raising from the death. And guess what, Jesus fulfilled the prophecy!

    Here’s another problem for you. According to the Qur’an, Allah’s words cannot be altered. The Qur’an says that the Torah and the Injil are the words of Allah. The Qur’an says that the Torah and Injil have been corrupted. Therefore Allah is a liar because he allowed his previous revelations to be corrupted, which the Qur’an says is impossible.

    You say the Jews corrupted the Torah and Injil. In that case, the Jews are more powerful than Allah because Allah was powerless to stop them.

    So, if the Jews were able to do the impossible and corrupt Allah’s words then how do you know they didn’t corrupt the Qur’an? Maybe they changed everything in the Qur’an and maybe Joseph Smith, the founder of Islam, is actually the final prophet.

    If Allah was unable to protect the Torah and Injil from the Jews and had to send Muhammad to restore the message then maybe the Jews corrupted the Qur’an and so Allah had to send Joseph Smith (the founder of Mormonism) hundreds of years later to restore his message. This is exactly what you say happened to the Torah and Injil so it must’ve happened to the Qur’an and you should become a Mormon because the Qur’an has been corrupted by those all-powerful Jews.

    Again, Allah was powerless to preserve his word from the hands of the Jews. That means the Jews are more powerful than Allah.

    Of course I don’t believe the Torah or the Injil have been corrupted, but you believe this. So you can’t have any assurance that the Qur’an hasn’t been corrupted. Get the picture?

    Your god is too weak. My God has never allowed His Words to be corrupted. My God is all powerful.

    “You want me to take the Torah we have today and other books as the original truth. I’m sorry.”

    Again, if you don’t take the Torah we have today as true then you agree with me that Allah is too weak to protect his words. Allah is not all-powerful.

    “You say jesus is God, meaning you expect the appearance of a human form that will say it is God.”

    Jesus said He was God. God even said that Jesus was His Beloved Son. God raised Jesus from the dead in vindication of Jesus’ proclamation to be God. Here’s what God says about Jesus.

    Matthew 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

    So YHWH said that Jesus was His Son. God cannot lie and God’s words cannot be broken.

    Here’s what Jesus said to the Father.

    John 17

    “After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

    “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

    6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

    13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

    20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

    24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

    25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

    Did you notice this part of Jesus’ prayer?

    John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”

    Jesus said that He shared the Father’s glory in the Father’s presence before the world began. You can call Jesus a liar, but I never will. You can say God isn’t powerful enough to preserve His Word, but I never will.

    Here’s what Jesus’ disciple Jesus said about the Anti-Christ.

    John 2:22 “Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.”

    Muhammad denied that Jesus was the Son of God. Muhammad denied that God is a Father. Therefore, Muhammad was operating in the spirit of the Anti-Christ.

    This verse was written over 600 years before Muhammad was born. Muhammad was demon possessed.

    He continues with this.

    John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.”

    Muhammad denied that Jesus was the Son of the Father. Therefore, Muhammad knew neither the Father nor the Son.

    Muhammad was nothing more than a false pagan prophet who worshiped Satan and operated in the spirit of the Anti-Christ. The Qur’an is a plagiarism of the Torah and the Injil for it came much much later and contradicts every foundational teaching of the Torah and the Injil. Therefore, because the Qur’an contradicts the Word of God, the Qur’an is not from God. Therefore, Muhammad was a false prophet who spoke in the name of a false god. Therefore, you are a pagan.

    “That is exactly what Prophet Muhammad warned us about : the False Christ will claim deity and force people to worship him while :”

    Of course he warned you about that because he was operating in the spirit of the Anti-Christ. Satan doesn’t want you to know the Truth. Muhammad was possessed by a demon and spoke the words of Satan. Therefore, you follow Satan and you don’t have the Truth. Satan wants you to follow the Anti-Christ (Al-Mahdi) because he needs an army to kill God’s Chosen People (the Jews and those who keep the commandments of Jesus, Christians.) You will follow the Anti-Christ and Jesus will return, cast Al-Mahdi into the lake of fire and then he will kill you if you followed Al-Mahdi.

    “Therefore, God can not be seen.”

    Wrong again. The Injil says that Jesus is the exact representation of the invisible God. When we see Jesus, we see the Father.

    Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”

    Again, this was written 600 years before Muhammad. Muhammad said this is not true. God’s Word cannot be corrupted. Therefore, Muhammad was a liar.

    Here’s what Jesus had to say about this.

    John 14:8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

    9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.”

    These are the very Words of Jesus. Muhammad contradicts Jesus. Therefore, Muhammad is a liar.

    ” And anybody who say he is God we will kill him.”

    This was already prophesied in the Injil six hundred years before Muhammad was born.

    Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

    9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

    12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

    The Anti-Christ will convince his followers to try to kill the Lamb (Jesus). And you are so deceived that you will believe the liar, Al-Mahdi. The Son of God already prophesied that He will kill your false messiah and kill your false messiah’s followers. Beware Ahmed, dare you war against the Son of the Most High?

    Dare you ware against the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? Dare you war against the most powerful Being in all of creation? He will destroy you, Ahmed! Repent!

    What disgusting pride Al-Mahdi will have. He will think he can defeat All-Mighty God. He will be destroyed by just one look from Jesus.

    If you do not repent then this is what you have to look forward to seeing right before you are killed.

    Isaiah 63:Who is this coming from Edom,
    from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
    Who is this, robed in splendor,
    striding forward in the greatness of his strength?
    “It is I, proclaiming victory,
    mighty to save.”
    2 Why are your garments red,
    like those of one treading the winepress?
    3 “I have trodden the winepress alone;
    from the nations no one was with me.
    I trampled them in my anger
    and trod them down in my wrath;
    their blood spattered my garments,
    and I stained all my clothing.
    4 It was for me the day of vengeance;
    the year for me to redeem had come.
    5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
    I was appalled that no one gave support;
    so my own arm achieved salvation for me,
    and my own wrath sustained me.
    6 I trampled the nations in my anger;
    in my wrath I made them drunk
    and poured their blood on the ground.”

    You do not want this to happen to you Ahmed. He will destroy your body and then cast you into hell for eternity!

    Ahmed, the Torah and the Injil were written before Muhammad. God’s Word cannot be corrupted. The Qur’an contradicts God’s Word.

    Therefore,

    The Qur’an is not the word of God.
    Muhammad was a liar and a false prophet.
    Allah is a false god.
    Islam is a Satanic religion.

    Therefore, Muslims are pagans who worship Satan.

    Therefore, you are a pagan who worships Satan.

    Repent Ahmed for your gross blasphemy against the Father and the Son! Jesus can save you. Jesus loves you but you have to believe in Who He said He is.

    Joel V.

  39. Joel Varner says:

    Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism*

  40. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, I also wanted to know what country you are from. You don’t have to tell me, I am just curious.

    May you find the Truth,

    Joel V.

  41. Ahmed says:

    “Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him). (64) O People of the Scripture! Why will ye argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye then no sense? (65) Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge? Allah knoweth. Ye know not. (66) Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters. (67) Lo! those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and this Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protecting Guardian of the believers. (68) A party of the People of the Scripture long to make you go astray; and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not. (69) ”

    Chapter : The House of Imran

    I am giving you excerpt from Quran that addresses you. If you do not understand it, or feel it comes
    from a demon tell me. Yes verses are not in chronological order. But do not tell me you found the previous words unclear or with no context.

    I can not put my effort or will into contradicting all the Torah or Injil books of today. But to use them as ultimate source of knowledge or
    the acceptable source of religious teaching is wrong. For Islam came and explained us evrything.

    If jews altered past books, and God wanted it to happen with no intervention,
    that is a matter of will not a matter of lack of power. And it was a matter of will that 600 years after the alleged
    crucifixion of Jesus, God reveals to earth, that Jesus is but a servant and that with his Power, he saved him from being crucified.
    It is a truth that demolishes the very claim that Jesus died for your sin.
    My friend your sins, nobody can carry them. You do not carry the sins of anyone either.
    You have to wash yourself before death. In the day of judgement you will be alone in front of God
    and you will hear what he will decide upon you. All we can do is have the good faith, do good deeds till the last moment of death.

    Many things are really a matter of rationality. One can not drive back. And Islam is logic.

    When you come to something you do not understand in the Quran, you have to ask someone. I do not blame you when you read the following and wonder about it:

    “Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and ‘Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?”

    The expression “Have ye seen Lat” is the start of a new verse. the past verse tells about what Muhammad has seen in Heaven when God ascended him.
    It tells that the journey he made from Arabia to jerusalem then from Jerusalem up to Heaven is truth and what was seen by him is concrete not a dream.

    God says :
    “For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest!”

    Now the verse goes to another tone, and that is a tone of mockery, addressing Arabs : “Do you (Plural) See Al Lat, Do you See Uzza , Do you see Manat ? Do you Give
    to God the Girls and Leav the Boys to Yourselves ?” This is my translation of subsequent verse.

    So if we have to rephrase the whole thing :

    “People, I am telling you about what Muhammad has seen in Heavens, about what he has seen of what I, The Creator, have created.
    Now are you still saying God has three daughters, so God has daughters and you have sons ?!”

    For those who make a mockery of God, God makes of them a great mockery.

    As I said, Islam has given us a certain level of rationality. The mind can not go back.

  42. […] 6 Reasons Why Gog is the Antichrist / Beast     Me gusta:Me gustaBe the first to like this. Categorías:Bíblico, Israel […]

  43. Joel Varner says:

    Oh Ahmed, I am growing more and more disappointed in your inability to prove that Muhammad was a true prophet, that the Qur’an is from the God of Abraham, Moses, the Prophets and Jesus, or that Allah is the God of Abraham.

    All you have shown is your blind, cult-like faith in Muhammad and whatever Muhammad said. Even though Muhammad was a sinner, murderer, rapist, pedophile, thief, liar and pagan you still believe he was a prophet. He is one of the most perverse and vile men in all of history. He had the same character as Satan, who was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. I can’t think of a more Satanic individual and you claim he is a prophet of God. That is the supreme example of irrational belief.

    You don’t follow Abraham, Moses, the Hebrew Prophets or Jesus. You follow an illiterate, pagan moon-worshiper.

    You don’t follow the God of the Torah or the Injil. You follow the god of demonic Arabian poetry.

    You have seared your conscience and blinded yourself to the Truth. You continually fail to prove any of your assertions.

    Prove to me the Qur’an is from God.

    Prove to me that Muhammad was a true prophet of God.

    Prove to me that Jesus was not crucified.

    Prove that Jesus did not say He was YHWH.

    Prove to me YHWH did not call Jesus His Beloved Son.

    Prove to me that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

    Your faith is based on a foundation that was laid by Muhammad’s lies and ignorance.

    Ahmed, you are a pagan who follows a pagan false prophet who spoke in the name of the pagan moon god, Allah.

    And don’t try to use taqqiya on me! You know Muhammad told his followers to pray to Allah’s daughters. You know Islamic scholars admit that he told them to. You know that the Qur’an itself says that Muhammad spoke the words of Satan. Stop lying, Ahmed. Lying is a sin.

    The reason you lie is because Muhammad was a liar who worshiped a god who calls himself “The Greatest of All Deceivers.”

    My God forbids lying. My God doesn’t lie because my God is too holy to lie and deceive. You worship a pitiful god.

    My God is too powerful and faithful to allow His Word to be corrupted. Your god is powerless to stop it from being corrupted.

    My God speaks every language and His Word can be understood in every language. Your god can only hear and communicate in 7th Century Arabic. Your god is so small, Ahmed.

    Your prophet says that the earth lays on top of a turtles back! The Qur’an says the sun sets in a pool of muddy water! The Qur’an says that shooting stars are fiery missiles that Allah shoots at genies who try to get to heaven! The Qur’an is about as rational as a rock.

    Speaking of rocks,

    Your pagan prophet bowed down to a rock. Your pagan prophet ran around a rock naked.

    You Muslims bow down to your idol, the Kaaba!

    You Muslims think a rock can take away your sins!

    You Muslims think that you scare off the Devil by throwing stones at another rock!

    You are no different than the pre-Islamic Arabian pagans.

    God commands us never to adopt pagan practices and completely forbids us from bowing down to idols. Your god COMMANDS you to bow down to a lifeless stone and to kiss that pagan rock. Your god tells you that you must run around that stone like crazy, mindless heathens!

    Why would you bow down to a rock?!

    How can a rock take away your sins?

    Islam is just another pagan religion that Satan introduced to deceive. And you swallow it up because you love a lie and hate the Truth.

    Ever since you were a child you have prayed in a language you most likely don’t understand to a pagan deity. You pray to Satan 5 times a day and that’s why you are so deceived. It’s sad, Ahmed.

    Until you can prove your constant, unsupported assertions then there is no reason to talk to you any longer.

    Repent of your paganism and turn to the God of Abraham, Moses and the Prophets and bow low before the Son of God before He casts you in the pit.

    Joel V.

  44. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, my friend, where did you go?

    I miss talking to you, Ahmed! I hope to hear from you soon.

    May God reveal His Glorious Son to you,

    Joel V.

  45. Richard Neal says:

    Joel, you know I love you as a brother in Christ, and that I highly respect your work. I’ve even told you before that you are closer than any other apologist out there when it comes to your eschatological paradigm. But, then, this is not hand grenades or horseshoes, so simply being “close” is still to miss the mark by miles…So, again, I have to correct you on this latest claim that Gog is, in fact, the Antichrist. And I do so only as one Christian brother correcting another in hopes that he – and the Church at large, will have a better understanding of end-time events and characters as a result.

    Neither Gog, or the Mahdi, as you’ve previously stated, can be the Antichrist for many reasons…One’s end-time paradigm MUST EASILY incorporate ALL end-time prophecies. When one forces a Revised Roman Empire, or Russia as Magog, etc, into their escatological paradigm, one is forcing current geo-political crises into his paradigm. Doing so will always lead to error.

    In an attempt at being brief, let me map out, in very general terms, my new end-time paradigm:

    Israel is reborn as a modern state in 1948 (Ezek 37).

    A ten nation coalition, led by Gog – who comes from “the land of Gog” (Ma Gog in Hebrew) leads this coalition force in an invasion of the modern state of Israel in an attempt to annihilate the tiny state (Ezek 39 & 39).

    This ten nation coalition is, in fact, the fourth Beast (Empire) of the Book of Daniel (Dan 7)

    This 10 nation coalition force (empire) will be defeated “on the mountains of Israel” by God. Gog, the pseudo-military leader from “the land of Gog” (Turkey) will die.

    Gog is the sixth king (caliph) of the fourth Beast of Daniel 7.

    Gog will be followed by the seventh king (caliph), who is the False prophet (al-Mahdi).

    The seventh king (caliph) will abdicate to the eighth king (caliph) who will be the Antichrist – “Jesus, son of Mary” in Islamic teaching and eschatological anticipations.

    “Jesus, son of Mary” will, due to the disaster that was The War of Gog and Magog, enter into a peace treaty with Israel. This peace treaty will contain within it the right for Israel to rebuild their sacred Temple atop Mount Moriah. (Who else, but “Jesus, son of Mary” of Islamic thought and eschatological anticipations could green light a Jewish Temple along side The Dome of the Rock without all muslims going insane with rage?)

    This event, the signing of a peace treaty between Jesus, son of Mary and Israel triggers “Daniel’s Seventieth Weeks” (Dan 9)

    Three and one-half years later Jesus, son of Mary will return from his “desert capital” to the opening ceremonies at the new Jewish Temple. At that time he will perform the “abomination that causes desolation” act spoken of by Daniel and Christ (Dan 9:27, Matt 24:15).

    This “abomination that causes desolation act” will trigger the second eschatological time period known as The Great Tribulation Period” where the Antichrist and his False Prophet and their empire begin to persecute the Christians of the world because they refuse to worship Jesus, son of Mary.

    Jesus Christ, keeping his promise to His Church, cuts the three and one-half years of The Great Tribulation Period short with the rapture event.

    Jesus, son of Mary (the Antichrist) along with the Mahdi (the False Prophet) lead their armies out to Armageddon to fight against “Al-Dajjal (the Islamic Antichrist) who is, in fact, Jesus Christ.

    The third and final eschatological time period begins – The Day of the Lord’s Wrath.

    Let me show you, in brief, what I meant by the correct end-time paradigm “must easily incorporate all end-time prophecies” into its self.

    Revelation 17:10 is a puzzle that no man has ever solved: “They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.”

    For Gog, or the Mahdi to be the Antichrist, as you and others call for, you must solve this riddle…The “five have fallen,” 1. Muhammad 2. Abu Bakr 3. Omar 4. Umar 5. Ali the only five Caliphs (Kings) of Islam…The “one is,” (the sixth) Gog, because he reunited the Islamic Empire in its War of Gog and Magog, “the other has not yet come” (the seventh) is the Mahdi (False Prophet). the “Beast who once was, and is not is an eighth king (Caliph) (Jesus, son of Mary = the Antichrist)…Furthermore, “He belongs to the seven” refers to the Caliphate, which suffers “a mortal head wound” (Rev 13:13:3) when Gog, the sixth caliph, is killed “on the mountains of Israel,” but the Caliphate is”healed” with the appearance of the seventh king, the False prophet (al-Mahdi) and, soon after by the eighth king, the Antichrist (Jesus, son of Mary)…

    So, the Antichrist will be “Jesus, son of Mary” of Islamic teachings and eschatological anticipations…Moreover, “Jesus, son of Mary” is little more than the heretical Christ of Gnostic thought and teachings, which Muhammad simply borrowed and regurgitated…One can not, then, understand this whole paradigm without a working understand of Gnosticism and their history and teachings…

    If, Joel, you would like a more in-depth understanding of my paradigm, please visit my website/blog at http://www.KingdomOfTheAntichrist.com

    God Bless

    Richard Neal

  46. Ahmed says:

    Joel V,

    I was in a wedding vacation.
    There are many wrong books about Islam. I do not understand why you call me a pagan,
    while as Muslim, we worship one God, the creator of the Universe and all beings.
    The arrival of Islam marked the abolishment of all pagans way of worship. Arabs were
    worshipping statuses and idoles that they create with their hands. things made by
    handcraftsmen were used as Gods. We previously discussed about those so called daghters of God that
    arabs used to worship.
    So it really confuses me when you say that.
    There should be respect for all prophets and all good people but worship only goes to the one God.
    We can not worship Mr X or planet Y or animal W or idol Z. This is pagan way, and islam came against that.

    Since you seem to have the knowledge of past revelations, do you for example have the story of Abraham when
    he destructed the idols that was worshipped by his people ? We have that story in Quran.

    Quote
    “Even though Muhammad was a sinner, murderer, rapist, pedophile, thief, liar and pagan you still believe he was a prophet.
    He is one of the most perverse and vile men in all of history.”

    “sinner, murderer, rapist, pedophile, thief, liar and pagan”
    I am Muslim and I know much of the books we have and traditions. There is nothing of what you say to be true.
    You have to bring something, then we can discuss about it. I know there are many books that are saying wrong things
    about the Prophet and I understand if you were misled by them.

    Quote:


    Prove to me the Qur’an is from God.
    Prove to me that Muhammad was a true prophet of God.
    Prove to me that Jesus was not crucified.
    Prove that Jesus did not say He was YHWH.
    Prove to me YHWH did not call Jesus His Beloved Son.
    Prove to me that Jesus did not rise from the dead.
    Your faith is based on a foundation that was laid by Muhammad’s lies and ignorance.

    I would reply with these verses and leave your case between you and God:

    “And whomsoever it is Allah’s will to guide, He expandeth his bosom unto the Surrender, and whomsoever it is His Will to send astray, He maketh his bosom close and narrow as if he were engaged in sheer ascent. Thus Allah layeth ignominy upon those who believe not. (125) This is the path of thy Lord, a straight path. We have detailed Our revelations for a people who take heed. (126)”

    From Chapter Al Anaam

    Peace be upon those who believe in God.

  47. Joel Varner says:

    AHMED, MY FRIEND!!!!!! I’VE MISSED YOU!!!

    “I was in a wedding vacation.”

    Weddings are very special occasions. I hope you had fun and shared in the joy of the couple who was married. Jesus’ first miracle was done at a wedding. He turned water into wine. Which is strange because Muslims don’t believe drinking wine is Halal and yet Jesus not only drank wine himself (Luke 22) but miraculously provided wine at a wedding (John 2). Now, if Jesus was a devout Muslims, as the Qur’an says, why would He drink wine and provide wine for others to drink? Obviously, Jesus was without sin, even according to the Qur’an (Sura 3:35-36) and Hadith (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5838), so drinking wine (according to the sinless Jesus) is perfectly acceptable as long as you do not drink to become drunk. Drunkenness is a horrible sin and should be avoided at all costs. Yet, Jesus enjoyed wine, without over-consumption, and taught His followers to drink wine in remembrance of His sacrifice on the cross and the shedding of His blood (Luke 22).

    So, why did Jesus drink wine and teach His followers to drink wine if that is sinful? Either Jesus was wrong (as was every single Old Testament Prophet who drank wine) and sinful, or else Muhammad was wrong. Now, according to Islam Jesus can’t be a liar because He is sinless. But, according to Islam, Muhammad was NOT sinless (Surah 40:55; Surah 47:19; Surah 48:1-2), so Muhammad does not have the same authority as Jesus. We also know that Muhammad was prone to speaking the words of Satan, a thing which no Hebrew Prophet, nor the Son of God, ever did.

    “There are many wrong books about Islam.”

    I wholeheartedly agree!!! Most of the books coming out today which talk about Islam are wrong. Most of these wrong books are written by Muslims themselves in the West who try to portray Muhammad as a man of peace, the Qur’an as a book of peace and Islam as a religion of peace. Now, are they intentionally lying? I don’t think in all cases they are intentionally lying. I think the main problem, which I also see in you, is that they are ignorant of the history of their own prophet.

    But you see, I have not quoted from non-authoritative books. I have quoted from the Qur’an, the Hadith and Sira. If you believe these books are wrong, then you are no longer a Muslim and we should praise God for that!

    “I do not understand why you call me a pagan,
    while as Muslim, we worship one God, the creator of the Universe and all beings.”

    I call you a pagan because you are a pagan who follows a pagan god and you engage in pagan religious rituals and follow pagan superstitious beliefs.

    I have already explained to you that Allah was the chief pagan deity of Muhammad’s tribe. If you can explain why the God of Abraham would call Himself by any other name than His revealed name (YHWH) when He said clearly that if any prophet speaks in a name other than YHWH they are false prophets and should be stoned (Deuteronomy 18:20). Also, YHWH does not allow His prophets to speak the words of Satan, unlike your god (Surah 22:52; Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume Six, Number 4862; Al-Tabari, p. 108). Not only does the Qur’an, Al-Bukhari and Al-Tabari say that Muhammad spoke the words of Satan but also Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa’d, Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn al-Mundhir, Ibn Mardauyah, Musa ibn ‘Uqba and Abu Ma’shar. Now, the Bible says “by the mouth of two or three witnesses let a word be established” (2 Corinthians 13:1). So, we have more than 10 witnesses saying that Muhammad spoke the words of Satan. As a Christian, I am forbidden from listening to a prophet who speaks the words of Satan.

    So how can you trust a man who spoke the words of Satan? If he couldn’t distinguish between the voice of God and the voice of the Devil and could not discern between what was true and false why do you follow him?

    Now, about pagan rituals…

    Perhaps the biggest and most prevalent pagan ritual is the circumambulation of the Black Stone. Now we know from history that this was an established pagan ritual. Even Muhammad’s successor found it strange (Muslim 2915). Now Muhammad found it holy because his tribe, the Quraish tribe, found it holy from their paganism.

    Now other superstitious beliefs are as follows…

    *Satan causes yawning (Bukhari 73:245). How exactly does Satan cause yawning? That’s ridiculous!

    * Spoons should be covered before going to bed (Bukhari 69:527). Also ridiculous. What power do spoons have?????!!!!

    * Oversleeping is caused by Satan urinating in someone’s ear (Bukhari 54:492). Just ridiculous.

    * The bathroom should be entered by the left foot first (Fiqh – Islamic Law). why????

    * Satan sleeps in people’s noses so water should be snorted each day (Bukhari 54:516). Are you embarrassed by your prophet yet?

    * Bad dreams can be warded off by spitting over the left side of the bed (Bukhari 87:115).

    * Muslims should wipe themselves with an odd number of stones after defecating (Bukhari 4:162). What?????

    * Muhammad said to eat seven dates in the morning to ward off evil spells ( Muslim 5081; Bukhari 65:356).

    * Muhammad believed in the pagan “evil eye” (Muslim 5427)

    The most telling part of his superstitious beliefs is that his enemies were able to cast spells on Muhammad, himself!!!!! If Muhammad was a prophet of God then how could he become bewitched by witches??? (Muslim 5408; Bukhari 54:490).

    There is so much paganism inside Islam that it’s ridiculous.

    Because you worship a false god, because you follow pagan religious rituals and because you follow a prophet who believed in pagan superstition, I call you a pagan.

    “The arrival of Islam marked the abolishment of all pagans way of worship.”

    Obviously that is wrong because pagan practices and superstitions were incorporated into Islam by your pagan prophet. But you should also know the history of the rise of Islam and what contemporaries were saying about the Arabs that were destroying their cities.

    The Doctrina Jacobi, which was written in Palestine between 634-640, says Muhammad was still alive and proclaiming the coming of the Messiah! First of all, according to Islamic history, Muhammad died in 632. But according to writings which were written contemporarily with Muhammad, not hundreds of years later like the Hadith and Sirah, Muhammad was still alive and was proclaiming the coming of a Messiah. The Doctrina Jacobi also says the Arabs invaders said also that their prophet held the “keys of paradise.” Not only is this not in the Islamic traditions, but it was taken from Matthew 16:19 which says that Jesus gave the Apostle Peter the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

    Sophronius, the patriarch of Jerusalem until 637 called the Arab invaders “godless Saracens (note: he never called them Muslims)”. He also says they have “pagan mouths” (ethnikois tois stomasi). He called them “vengeful”, “God-hating”, “God-fighters” and “godless” “pagans”.

    In 676, a Nestorian synod declared that Christian women must avoid the Arab pagans (hanpe). He also calls polygamy a pagan practice. How could a Nestorian in Syria talk of pagans 40 years after they were supposedly cleared from Arabia?

    Athanasius II, the Monophysite patriarch of Antioch between 683-686 warned Christians not to take part in “pagan festivals” and for Christian women not to marry “the pagans.”

    It wasn’t even until the 690’s that anybody even called the Arab invaders by the name Muslim (Coptic Christian bishop, John of Nikiou was the first). They were known mainly known as Saracens, Hagarites, Ishmaelites, Taiyaye and called themselves Muhajirun, not Muslims. Muhajirun means “emigrants”. Why would the Arabs not call themselves Muslims????

    If you would like to know the earliest history of the so-called Islamic Arabs, please let me know. I can even provide you with coins from the 7th Century that depict Muhammad holding a cross with the name ammad under them!!!!! History and archaeology are completely destroying Islam as we speak.

    A Syrian coin from the late 680’s also bears the word “Muhammad” and depicts a figure holding a cross!

    But according to Islamic tradition, it is forbidden for Muhammad to be depicted. I guess the earliest Muslims didn’t know that rule. They even depicted him holding a cross!!!

    “Since you seem to have the knowledge of past revelations, do you for example have the story of Abraham when
    he destructed the idols that was worshipped by his people ?”

    You are referring to sura 21:51-7.Do you know where that story comes from??? It was stolen from Jewish Midrash! Read the Apocalypse of Abraham and the Book of Jubilees. These have never been considered Scripture. They were just Jewish stories and legends. There are many, many stories in the Qur’an that come from Jewish and Christian apocrophal writings. The most obvious one is where the Queen of Sheba comes to Solomon. The story is directly taken from the 2nd Targum of Esther!

    “We have that story in Quran.”

    I know, because you stole it from the Midrash Rabbah!!

    “I am Muslim and I know much of the books we have and traditions. There is nothing of what you say to be true.”

    I’m sorry to say this but you are completely ignorant of your own history. I’ll take each accusation one by one.

    1.)Muhammad was a sinner…

    I’ve already shown you from the Qur’an that Muhammad was a sinner(Surah 40:55; Surah 47:19; Surah 48:1-2). Read the Qur’an for yourself. I’m serious, take out your Qur’an and read these three passages which talk about Muhammad’s past, present and FUTURE sins.

    2.)Muhammad was a murderer…

    “The apostle said, “Kill any Jew that falls into your power.” Thereupon Muhayyisa leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time, though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed [the Jew] Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, “You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?” Muhayyisa answered, “Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.” This was the beginning of Huwayyisa’s acceptance of Islam… [Huwayyisa] replied exclaimed, “By God, a religion which can bring you to this is marvelous!” and he became a Muslim.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 554)

    The Muslims were actually the first to resort to physical violence, when Sa’d bin Abu Waqqas picked up a camel’s jawbone and struck a local polytheist who was “rudely interrupting” his group of praying Muslims. “This was the first blood to be shed in Islam” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 166).

    What about raiding caravans?

    [A Muslim raider] who had shaved his head, looked down on them [the Meccan caravan], and when they saw him they felt safe and said, “They are pilgrims, you have nothing to fear from them.” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 424)

    [The Muslim raiders] encouraged each other, and decided to kill as many as they could of them and take what they had. Waqid shot Amr bin al-Hadrami with an arrow and killed him… (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 425)

    “The Quraysh said that Muhammad and his Companions violated the sanctity of the Sacred Month and shed blood, confiscated property and took prisoners during it. Those who refuted them among the Muslims who remained in Makkah replied that the Muslims had done that during the month of Sha`ban (which is not a sacred month). (Ibn Kathir)

    Notice Ibn Kathir says that Muhammad was involved in the killings. These are just small examples. Read about the beheading of the 600-800 Jewish men of the Banu Qurayza tribe who had already surrendered. Muhammad had them murdered!

    3.) Muhammad was a rapist…

    “I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345)

    Now, if Muhammad had concubines then obviously he slept with them. How is it not rape to have sex with a captured slave? Do you think they helpless slaves, after watching their husbands be murdered, would want to have sex with that perverted man?

    Muhammad endorsed rape…

    “The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.
    Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) “And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.” (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

    “”O Allah’s Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?” The Prophet said, “Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

    As indicated, the prophet of Islam did not mind his men raping the women, provided they ejaculated within the bodies of their victims. Muhammad was a horrible man!

    How can you follow a rapist????

    4.) Muhammad was a pedophile…

    Muhammad set the example by marrying and having sex with Aisha when she was only 9-years-old:

    ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: “Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.” (Sahih Muslim 3309) This is confirmed in many other hadith as well.

    According to the most reliable traditions, Aisha brought her dolls to Muhammad’s house for play (Muslim 3341) and he would fondle the little girl in the tub while taking baths with her (Bukhari 6:298). Aisha was just a teenager by the time Muhammad died, but she had already spent over half her life in marriage to him.

    “[Muhammad said] “…the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of Aisha.” (Bukhari 47:755)

    So you see, he did not receive further revelation unless he was having sex with the little girl, Aisha. That is so demonic! How could you follow this child raping, pervert?

    Jesus would never, EVER, condone any thing like that. It is so horrible it’s hard to even think about!

    Shame on you for calling this man a prophet of God!

    5.) Muhammad was a thief…

    I already provided the texts talking about him raiding caravans and taking booty. That is stealing. Muhammad was a thief, even stealing his own adopted sons wife (Sura 33:37).

    6.) Muhammad was a liar…

    I already told you about the Satanic verses which imply him lying. He even encouraged lying…

    “Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Ka’b). “The Prophet said, “You may say it.” (Bukhari 59:369)

    This one’s funny…

    “Allah’s Apostle said] “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.” (Bukhari 49:857)

    What a freaking liar!!! He’s saying making stuff up isn’t lying!!!

    “When they came to him they spoke to him and made him promises, treating him well, saying that if he would come to the apostle, he would give him an appointment and honor him. They kept on at him until he went with them with a number of Jews… [Once the Jews were disarmed] all the apostles’ companions fell upon their Jewish companions and killed them except one man who escaped on his feet. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 981).

    Notice they made him promises which obviously they didn’t keep. They lied to him in order to calm him so that they could kill him. And what about your entire doctrine of Taqqiyyah???

    7.) Muhammad was a pagan….

    I’ve already dealt with that in-depth.

    “I would reply with these verses and leave your case between you and God:

    “And whomsoever it is Allah’s will to guide, He expandeth his bosom unto the Surrender, and whomsoever it is His Will to send astray, He maketh his bosom close and narrow as if he were engaged in sheer ascent. Thus Allah layeth ignominy upon those who believe not. (125) This is the path of thy Lord, a straight path. We have detailed Our revelations for a people who take heed. (126)”

    From Chapter Al Anaam”

    Obviously, you don’t know how a debate works. You can’t use quotations from a book I am disputing. You can’t prove the Qur’an is from God by showing me that the Qur’an says it’s from God. That doesn’t make any sense.

    I’m sorry you are part of a religion that can’t be defended intellectually. The only way Muslims can defend their beliefs is through violence and intimidation. You follow a horrible pagan prophet and worship a false god.

    Come to Jesus, Ahmed! Come to the Truth! Stop blinding yourself. I would challenge you to actually read your own Islamic sources and understand, in detail, what Muhammad was like. He was not a good man. He was not a prophet. He is not a good moral example. He was a murderer, a thief, a liar, a pedophile, a rapist and a sexually deviant megalomaniac.

    Shame on you for trusting this man and calling him a prophet, Ahmed! Shame on you!

    Joel V.

  48. Ahmed says:

    Joel V.

    I have little time to connect from home knowing the new family situation. However I can allow 20 minutes before I quit work evry day.

    If you truly think in your heart that Mohammad did something bad, that makes him unworthy of a Prophet, then you can pick one and we debate about it.
    As Muslim I will put my knowledge to discuss it and as a Tunisia I will put the knowledge I have of the original arabic texts.

    A discussion can never reach a conclusion if at each iteration we throw multiple new points. We must narrow breadth in favor of the depth.

    So if you agree, just start pick one point, I will not divert from it. You should not divert too, we keep debating till we reach a conclusion or result, then only we can go on to another points.

    Do you agree ?

  49. Joel Varner says:

    Ahmed, I have to keep adding arguments because you never coherently answer my questions and trail off the original argument.

    And I don’t care that I can’t speak Arabic. Your own scholars have translated the Qur’an into English. If the Qur’an cannot be faithfully translated into another language then that just shows Allah’s incompetence in revealing his words. My Scriptures can be translated and understood in any language.

    So let’s pick a topic…

    Question:

    Muslims say that the Qur’an has been preserved on eternal tablets. The tablets on which the Qur’an is written are of a different substance and nature than God.

    The Qur’an states that to give partners to Allah is to commit shirk.

    Therefore, how is it not shirk to say that the Qur’an has been preserved on eternal tablets which themselves are distinct from Allah? Using common sense, you can see that Islam has two eternal substances; Allah and the eternal, uncreated tablets on which the Qur’an is written. Therefore, the Qur’an itself is Allah’s eternal partner.

    Because the Qur’an inadvertently condemns itself of committing shirk, why should a reasonable person believe it is true?

    Joel V.

    Answer the topic in question. We are not discussing the Bible, the Trinity or Christian beliefs. We are discussing how the Qur’an is preserved on eternal tablets.

  50. Ahmed says:

    I don’t understand.
    Quran is not the Creator. It is Words of the Creator, not Even The Complete Words of Him.

    Read Chapter 18 Verse 109.
    It says, If The sea was to be used as an Ink for the Words of God, Then the Sean will Dry up before the end of the Words of God…

  51. […] Źródło: Joel Richardson, 6 Reasons Why Gog is the Antichrist / Beast […]

  52. Chris says:

    I admit I haven’t rear all your stuff. You think an Islamic antiChrist will speak the blasphemies we read about in the NT…against EVERYTHING that is called God or is worshiped…like maybe Allah too?

  53. Joel says:

    Chris,

    Daniel 11:36-39 informs us that while the Antichrist will show no regard for YHVH, or Messiah (the desire of women) or any other god, there is a god that he does show regard for. A god of force or fortresses, is often the translation. Most agree that this is a reference to a god of war. So there is a god that he will not blaspheme, the god of war. Which of course could very easily be a reference to Allah, the god of Jihad.

  54. […] Źródło: Joel Richardson, 6 Reasons Why Gog is the Antichrist / Beast […]

  55. nikolai says:

    Hi Joel,

    if Gog is the Antichrist how do we reconcile his destruction in the countryside while the AC is in fact ravaging and destroying Jerusalem itself. Gog is losing a war against the Jews, the AC is winning it. Gog does not chastise Israel, the AC is dominating them for 3 1/2 years.

    How do you reconcile this? What am I missing?

  56. Joel says:

    Gog is not destroyed instantly, that is simply an assumption.

  57. Victor says:

    I haven’t read all of these comments. I have read one of the Joel’s books, The Islamic Antichrist.

    One thing that I have have seen referred to but never in depth is that this:

    Islam says they trace their ancestors back to Abraham. But they do it through Ishmael. Ishmael is the false son of Abraham who Abraham tried to have the promised son by his own human means not by God’s promise.

    This false line of the promised inheritance leads to the major false religion of Islam which is the antitheses of the true line of the promise.

  58. Eduardo says:

    Joel I am brazilian and appreciated his blog.

    I admired persons like you and Walid Shoebat, different ways to understand The Bible Prophecy.

    For so many years I believed that the Ezequiel 38 and 39 and The Armageddon are two different wars.

    Could you please explain your position about this matter ?

    Thanks and God bless you.

    Eduardo G. Oliveira

  59. Joel says:

    Eduardo,

    http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?page_id=5755

    There are a few articles here which begin to explain this. I also deal with it extensively in Mideast Beast. I hope this helps.

    Blessings

  60. Joseph says:

    Hi Joel,

    What if we (Christians) all have pieces of the puzzle. See, I agree the man of sin will come from the nations/kingdom that Gog represents in Ezekiel. We discussed this briefly spoke when I shared with you that Dr. Gene Scott believed antichrist would be Arab as well, but Dr. Scott was also a staunch believer in a pre-trib catching away of the Gentile Church.

    That being said, the common view that antichrist will be Roman needs to be revisited as well. Rome and it’s history has left on world society’s its mark. The International Court is a product of the Rome Statue of justice, and the UN uses the IC, or will use the IC as their seat of justice.

    Right now the UN is sending Prince Prince Zeid Ra’ad Zeid Al-Hussein to “investigate” ISIS but not only ISIS but also Iraqi troops of accused atrocities. What an interesting move considering the prince is the next inline to an Iraqi/Syrian Kingdom. He is also a royal from the Saudi House of Hashim. He was the Jordanian Ambassador to the US and is currently the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. He also chaired the selection committee of the second prosecutor of the IC.

    This guy or a from his royal house could be a springboard for the future man of sin, and his background encompasses all the prophetic views that we respect even if we disagree on certain details.

  61. Joseph says:

    Joel to discuss the content of the OP,

    You asked “How could it be said that from that day forward, the LORD will “no longer let [His] holy name be profaned” literally right before the Antichrist and his worldwide movement of blasphemy erupt throughout the earth?”

    You used Ezekiel 39 to upset the chronology of pre-tribulation eschatology based on a ceasing of the Lord’s name being profaned. However, I believe you overlooked who God is referring to in that passage.

    In Ezekiel 36 God addresses the House Israel who were dispersed among the nations. He specifically mentions how they “profaned his name among the nations”. He then goes on to proclaim he will pour out his Spirit on them and purify them specifically “for his names sake” and they will return to Israel filled with the Spirit, along with Judah. Ezekiel 39 is referring back to this promise and God’s name will no longer be profaned among the nations by ISRAEL because he has poured out his Spirit on them. This causes Gog to move on a resurrected and purified Israel (Ezekiel 36, 37) who believe they are safe, who remove their walls of security. Israel is anything but safe at the end of the Tribulation.

    To answer your question/s his name will no longer be “profaned” in Israel throughout the Revelation of Jesus to Israel during the Tribulation. The 144,000, from the tribes of Israel, are marked by God and the two witnesses, one from the House of Israel and one from the House of Judah, unite them and declare Jesus their King under a Davidic throne. They are persecuted severely by the Beast for this after we see God obliterate the armies of God who move against them IN Israel.

  62. Joseph says:

    *typo – They are persecuted severely by the Beast for this after we see God obliterate the armies of *God who move against them IN Israel.

    Replace *God with *Gog.

  63. Amber says:

    Hey Joel,

    I’m really impressed about how much knowledge you have and amazed by all your insights. I’ve learned a lot from you and I’m really thankful for this. There is just one thing that bothers me. I did some research about the islamic escatology and on all the sites I came across, they explained that first their antichrist or dajjal will appear, and after him Isa (their Jesus). So this order is a problem: Mahdi (our antichrist), Dajjal (our false prophet), Isa (our Jesus), in this way we would both be siding with Jesus and unite against Dajjal, right? It got me very confused.

    Thank you, keep up the good work and God bless you and your family.

    Love, Amber

  64. Richard McAulay says:

    Hi Joel,

    Tell us, how do you explain away the Gog in Rev who is destroyed by fire at the end of the millennium? The beast has by then already spent at least 1k years in the lake of fire?

    Regards, Richard

  65. Joel says:

    Richard,

    This is not a problem. The Gog of Revelation is simply a different individual than the Gog of Ezekiel. Within 1st century Jewish and Christian apocalyptic literature, Gog had become a common term. In Revelation, Gog is simply what Revelation says he is. He is Satan’s final effort to stir up resistance among the peoples of the earth against Jesus. If Revelation had used an identical term “Antichrist,” virtually none would demand that it must be the same human individual as 1 John. The problem is a lack of understanding as to who the Gog of Ezekiel is. He is simply the Antichrist.

    The real problem is for those who would argue that the Gog of Revelation and the Gog of Ezekiel are the same. Ezekiel is very clear that it is not until after Gog and his hordes are destroyed that the following things take place:

  66. The house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God from that day onward. (Ez. 39:22)
  67. The Lord restores the fortunes of Jacob and has mercy on the whole house of Israel. (Ez 39:25)
  68. Israel repents of their treachery which they perpetrated against the Lord while they lived in the land. (Ez. 39:26)
  69. The Lord brings the Jewish exiles back from the lands of their enemies. (Ez. 39:27)
  70. The Lord is sanctified in the sight of the many gentile nations. (Ez. 39:27)
  71. Israel will come to know that I am the LORD their God. (Ez 39:28)
  72. The Lord will not hide His face from Israel any longer. (Ez. 39:29)
  73. The Lord will pour out His Spirit on the house of Israel. (Ez. 39:29)
  74. Again, all of these things happen specifically because of the judgment and destruction of Gog and his armies. Anyone who seeks to move these events to the end of the 1000 reign of Christ must cast Jesus as the most ineffective and impotent Messiah. They must ignore the wealth of prophecies that make it clear that these things all happen when Jesus returns, not 1000 years later. It’s very simple. Efforts to equate Ezekiel’s Gog (Antichrist) with the brief reference to Satan’s final Gog at the end of Rev must do great violence to the Scriptures to argue their case.

    Blessings,
    Joel

  • Mr. Ashley Sears says:

    Joel,

    Finding pastors, let alone Christians, let alone anybody, who can effectively communicate who they believe Gog is, is discouraging! Evidently this has caused me to find your discussions here. I have Arab Muslim co-workers, who do in fact, speak freely of their understandings of eschatology, which is nice. It’s requires much work and effort to get yourself Biblically literate (with the Holy Spirit. I’m afraid that’s the problem. I’m the only person in my circle who likes to talk about this entire issue.

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