Islam and the End Times By Jack Kelley
I loves Jack Kelley’s heart. Very gracious as always. Excellent article. Though sadly, despite its humble tone, I’m sure it will still infuriate some.
Grace Through Faith: There’s a lot of interest in the role of Islam in the End Times. And from what I’m reading, a lot of misunderstanding, too. Recent surveys are shedding some light.
It’s becoming clear that Moslems are increasing in number faster than any other religious group in the world. Their current growth rate is four times faster than that of Christians. According to a recent survey by The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, those who practice Islam now make up nearly one-fourth of the world’s population at 1.57 billion members, second only to Christianity. This is revolutionary in nature and even though it’s happening right before our eyes, most Western Christians haven’t even noticed. And not only are Moslems the fastest growing religious group in the world, they also hold that distinction in the United States, Canada and Europe, with Europe perhaps being the model of where Canada and then the US are headed.
Comparing the current birth rates of native Europeans with Europe’s Moslem immigrant population leads us to one very clear and surprising conclusion: the Europe we have known is very quickly changing into what some refer to as Eurabia, where Europe will soon find itself under the power and control of Islam. Today there are more Moslems in Germany than there are in Lebanon. France’s Moslem population, while fewer in number than Germany’s, represents a greater percentage of French citizenry, and given the current rate at which church buildings are being converted there may soon be more mosques in England than functioning churches.
Following the rapture of the Church, Islam will be the most populous religious system on Earth by a wide margin. Whether you believe that Islam is a religion of peace or not, it’s pretty obvious that they’re not going to just go away after the rapture and abandon their long held dream of becoming the world’s dominant religion just at the point of realizing it.
What About Ezekiel 38?
Don’t make the mistake of thinking that Islam will no longer be a viable religious force after the Battle of Ezekiel 38 either. According to The Pew Forum report, the countries who will unite against Israel and be defeated there are a small percentage of the total Islamic population. For example, the four largest Islamic countries by population aren’t even involved. In fact, two thirds of all the world’s Moslems live in 10 countries and of those only Turkey (5) and Iran (6) are named by Ezekiel. Rough estimates indicate that as little as 15% of the Islamic world will be represented by the forces aligned against Israel, and remember it’s only their soldiers who die in battle, not their total populations.Compare that to what will likely happen to the 2.2 billion strong “Christian” world in the Rapture and it’s not hard to see that Islam will still be the strongest religious force on Earth as Daniel’s 70th Week begins. (After all, none of them will be raptured.) Islam would be the obvious choice for a man who wants to use a religious system to gain control of the world.
And remember, the anti-Christ won’t be confirming a covenant with Israel for the purpose of helping them. He’ll be doing it to help himself. By means of peace he’ll deceive many, Daniel warned (Daniel 8:25). And with the exception of the fleeing Jewish remnant, the world will be deceived, saying “Peace and safety” just as sudden destruction comes upon them (1 Thes. 5:9). But God will not be deceived. He’s already on the record, calling it a covenant with death. (Isaiah 28:15) But doesn’t this covenant serve God’s purpose, you ask? Well of course everything that happens serves God’s purpose, but that doesn’t mean everything that happens is good for man. The Jews will think they’re getting a guarantee of peace but God will use the covenant to usher in Daniel’s 70th Week, a time when He’ll completely destroy the nations, and purify His covenant people. It’ll be anything but peaceful.
Let’s also remember how crafty the enemy is. For example, MI-6, the British intelligence service, has just confirmed that Iranian Pres. Ahmadinejad, who could be one of the leaders of the Islamic coalition in Ezekiel 38, was born Jewish. The family converted when he was 4 years old. Knowing that, how could we say the anti-Christ (who some believe has to be Jewish) could not come from an Islamic country that was once part of the Roman Empire? Please, I’m not saying Mr. Ahmadinejad is the anti-Christ. I’m only saying that someone like him could be.
Almost 4 years ago I first reported on the similarities between Islamic prophecies of al Mahdi and Christian prophecies of the anti-Christ. I noted how both are said to come on the scene during a time of great turmoil on Earth, both come claiming a desire to restore peace, both have a seven year reign, both head a one world religion and one world government, both claim supernatural origins, and both reigns end in a battle between good and evil that brings Earth’s final judgment. It almost sounds as if they’re the same person.
At that time the majority of prophecy students were still convinced that the anti-Christ had to be of Western European origin, aligned somehow with the Roman Catholic Church. But since then I’ve become aware of more and more who are taking a second look at this traditional view, and are considering the possibility of a coming world leader whose roots are in Islam.
A Lesson From Daniel
When Daniel had his vision of Gentile Dominion, the period of Gentile rule over the Earth, it came to him in the form of 4 great beasts. The first was a lion, representing Babylon. The second was a bear, the Medo-Persians, and the third was a leopard, Greece. Then in Daniel 7:7 he said, “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast-terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.” This is a reference to Rome. In animal imagery, the horn demonstrates authority, and when used symbolically the number 10 denotes the completion of divine order. This 4th beast would have complete authority over Earth and would never totally relinquish it until the Lord comes to take it by force. (Daniel 2: 44)The anti-Christ will make his first Biblical appearance in Rev. 6:2, disguised as the man on the white horse. According to Daniel 8:25 he’ll seem to be a great peacemaker, but his intent will be to conquer the world. His true identity won’t be revealed until Revelation 13:1-2 where it becomes clear that he’s been empowered by Satan. Verses 1- 2 describe him thus. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
Compare Rev. 13 to Daniel 7 and you’ll see that while the 10 horns show that he’ll have all the authority of the fourth gentile kingdom, his identifying characteristics will be more like the first three of Daniel’s beasts. Babylon, Persia, and Greece were all oriented toward the East. Only Rome had a western orientation (which made it different from the other three, as Daniel noted) Could this mean that the anti-Christ will also look first to the East (Isalm) to consolidate his power?
Time will tell. In his interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, Daniel told us how the end times version of the 4th kingdom would be characterized by inner conflict. He said that where it had once been as two strong legs of iron (the Eastern and Western divisions of Biblical times) rebuilding it at the end it would be like trying to mix iron and clay. (Daniel 2:40-43) He could have been describing some of the social unrest we’ve witnessed in several European countries as their native populations have not always responded well to Moslem immigration.
My purpose in writing this is not in any way to confirm or endorse the views of some experts on Islam who’ve who’ve burst on the scene recently with all sorts of new interpretations of Christian prophecy. It’s to remind us all to keep our eyes open. Things are happening fast and will continue to challenge our traditional perspective. Daniel was told that as the End of the Age approaches knowledge will increase (Daniel 12:4). That means we’ll be given a clearer understanding of how events will unfold than those who came before us. This will happen through careful observation, actually seeing the pieces of the puzzle fall into place and comparing them to Scripture. But God knows the end from the beginning, so none of this is new to Him. Where we see change, He just sees a closer alignment of Earthly events with Heavenly truth. It’s time to keep an open Bible handy as we watch the headlines because we now have another reason to search the Scriptures daily (Acts 17:11). You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah. 10-10-09
October 12th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Joel, I am not aware of this individual. Who is he?
October 12th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
I see a lot of his articles on GraceThruFaith.com.
October 12th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Sean Osborne is bashing Jack already. Not surprised.
http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/prophecy-end-times-chat/28973-islam-end-times.html
October 12th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
But others are opening up …
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=112148
October 12th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Jack Kelley:
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/kelley/kelley.html
October 12th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
The more time one spends on a familiar trail in the forest sometimes makes it more difficult to find and trust better, more reliable trails. In time, with an earnest desire for the truth, those who seek God will find the proper trail, whether sooner or later.
In the end, which is the not so distant future, we will all be on the same trail.
The sun rose in 1948 and is low in the sky today. It will not be long.
October 12th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Also, Joel is right.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:26 am
The major problem that I have with the above article by Jack Kelley is the fallacy of the pre-trib rapture and that somehow God’s people (The Church) will be removed from the eartth. Nothing could be further from the truth and this “false eschatological teaching” does not align with the Word of God. We have Christians the world over professing to unbelievers to get ready for some MYSTERIOUS return of Christ or else they will be LEFT BEHIND. When Christ returns to this earth at His second coming The Holy Scriptures make it clear that EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM (No Secret Return Here), EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM (Rev. 1: 7). My rational re: the rapture is that it is NOT RATIONAL AT ALL; and only DECEIVES believers into believing something that has never been supported by the early Church right up to this present day. The Doctrine of The Pre-Trip Rapture has only been circulating for the past 150 years and is a fairly new teaching in the Church. The unfortunate reality is that the “so-called” Rapture is a deceptive tool used by The Enemy to fool believers into believing that they will NOT be here on the earth during The Great Tribulation. The reality is that The Entire Body of Christ will go through The Entire Tribulation. Some of us will survive it; but the reality is that most of us won’t.
IT’S THE TRUTH PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
The Word of God declares that in the “last days” (or the end of days) MANY WILL FALL AWAY FROM THE FAITH GIVING HEED TO SEDUCING SPIRITS AND DOCTRINES OF DEVILS. I am convinced that the Pre-Trib Rapture is a “red-herring”, a convenient ESCAPE for God’s people from surrendering their most prized possession - THEIR LIVES! The reality is this: in order for The Rapture to be true means the faithful MUST be removed from the earth BEFORE any real global persecution takes place. Never mind that Christians around the globe are already DYING FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOSPEL and that they LOVE NOT their lives unto DEATH. This is clearly a difficult situation to explain for those who are pre-tribers, but they usually find a way to do so; although not so convincingly from the perspective of the writer and those who have studied The Word of God for themselves versus being spoon fed by their pastors who in turn were spoon fed by their pastors; and so on and so on. When faithful believers are still here on the earth when they should have been whisked away “secretly” (due to the imminent Wrath of God); the entire Christian Church will be the laughing stock of the entire earth. Many Christians who were all about THE PRESERVATION OF THEIR FLESH will feel betrayed by their pastors and others who promised them that they would not be here to face ANY REAL TESTING OF THEIR FAITH (ie. severe persecution of ones livelihood and even death) will quickly be offended by the Gospel and WILL BETRAY ONE ANOTHER according to The Word of God. It’s great that Yeshua our Lord and Saviour was willing to die for us; but certainly when it comes down to it, He doesn’t really expect us to lay down our lives for the sake of the Gospel; does He?
My response to that question is an UNEQUIVOCAL YES!!!!
Let us be prepared NOT ONLY to live for Christ, but also to die for Him likewise.
FOR HIS GLORY!!
October 13th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
The docrtine of a pre-trib rapture is something sincere Bible-believing and solidly orthodox christians may legitimately disagree on. A good debater can make viable Biblical case for pre, mid, or post. Just becasue someone comes to a different opinion, that does not mean they are being “spoon fed from pastors who were in turn spoon fed.” This doctrine (pre-trib rapture) is NOT coming from “seducing spirits or demons!” Our salvation does not depend on having the right call on this question. All the ideas about “what will happen if”…. are pure speculation. I know and respect several good quality Bible teachers who have differing opinions on this….and all of them are willing to live for..and die for Christ! whether one is “pre, mid or post” has nothing to do with the level of maturity or spirituality or comitment to Christ. However, our demonstrated humility vs. our demonstarted pride certainly does!
October 13th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
David Crisp:
I thank you for your comments and I agree that whatever position one takes re: the tribulation should NOT shake ones faith; but the reality IS it will (for some if not many). Like I said before the Pre-Trib Rapture has NO biblical basis in scripture. Do your homework, search the net, the evidence is there if your willing to put aside your own presupposition on this issue. I noticed that you did not respond to the fact that since the inception of The Church God’s people have ALWAYS SUFFERED PERSECUTION for the Word of God (the apostles and the early Church fathers were martyed) right up until this present day. Even this website testifies to Christian and Jewish persecution around the world - Christians are dying for their faith NOW as always . As it stands if your being murdered for your faith your under Great Tribulation. Explain to me and those who might be reading this note why God is apparently willing to remove some/many from The Great Tribulation at some specified time of His choosing when countles millions of Saints throughout the recorded history of the Church (and present day) died during their Great Tribulation. From human reasoning there is no greater tribulation than the loss of one’s life and loved ones. AGAIN THE PRE/MID RAPTURE SPEAKS CONTRARY TO BIBLICAL HISTORY AND THE WORD OF GOD BECAUSE IT’S NOT THE WORD OF GOD, but simply a delusion to numb the minds of believers into believing something that the early Church never sanctioned. The Word of God makes it clear that at the end of the age that the Church will be given over to a strong delusion that appeals to the flesh of man versus the spirit of man. The reality is the “Ecumenical ?Church” of this present day is the mainstream Church that has adopted heretical teachings that have nothing to do with the Word of God and will cause MANY TO FALL AWAY fro the faith. People are NOT as strong as you think, especially if they are NOT PREPARED to deal with the reality that they will have to go through the Great Tribulation to determine “what they are made of”. Those who were DECEIVED by this false doctrine for the most part will not be able to withstand the System of the Beast. Betrayal of any level cuts deep and it is difficult to recover from especially if its coming from your pastor or some other spiritual advisor that you trusted deeply. The truth is that people are BETTER prepared when they know they will be confronted with danger/peril versus when they are of the mindset that danger will NOT come their way and it DOES and they are unprepared to face it; just like the flood in Noah’s day. Interestingly enough Noah’s ark represented the Ship of Salvation for Noah and his family; but they were NEVER TAKEN AWAY from the midst of the danger but were save inspite of it.
GOD’S WORD STAND FOREVER. Let us be prepared NOT ONLY to live for Christ, but to die for Him also.
FOR HIS GLORY!!
October 13th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
For those interested, I have posted my own reasons why I no longer believe in a pre-trib rapture and why I now believe in a post-trib rapture:
Here: http://www.prophecynet.com/showthread.php?t=26343
and
Here: http://www.prophecynet.com/showthread.php?t=26458
October 14th, 2009 at 12:02 am
Christopher: You need to ease up in the tone and choice of words of your posts. You do not have the authoritarian opinion or the corner on insight. Suggest that you re-read David Crisp’s post and then re-read your’s again and really think through the differences between the two. Alot of people here have done their homework.
October 14th, 2009 at 6:33 am
Mitch,
Thanks for your thoughts, but I don’t think that you have considered the ramifications of the danger that the pre/mid rapture doctrine presents to an unsuspecting Church who believes that they will be whisked away during this time. EASING UP on the issue of this FALSE DOCTRINE is the last thing that believers need. We are called to sound the alarm. We are called to be watchmen. I’m not concerned about sensibilities of others nor is it my intention to offend but I have discovered that offense will come to those who are not prepared to receive the truth. May I suggest that you reread my comments soberly. It would appear that since so many people have done their homework we still have dissenting opinions. At the end of the day people will still choose to believe whatever they want even when the evidence is presented to them. If we KNOW that the Word of God does NOT support a particular doctrine that is harmful to The Church those of us who know better need to dispel the myth with humility. You may not like how I present things, but that’s just the way it goes at times, especially when we’re running out of time to present the truth. The time will come when individuals WITHIN the Church will NOT ENDURE sound doctrine. This period has been with us for some time. I thank you for your time on this discourse. Be blessed you and your family.
FOR HIS GLORY!!
October 14th, 2009 at 10:08 am
Hey christopher im a pretribber / PREWRATH kinda guy am I falling for the evil ones tricks ?
I believe God will take us when he takes us is this wrong he says look up so I look up . he comes at an hour you dont think he will come well if I see a treaty of 7 years by the anitchrist then I can just watch the clock and know the Big man will be coming in about 7 years , so I think its best just to believe he is coming when he is ready since Jesus said no man Knows, not even the angels or the Son of Man , and since we can subtract the angels , and Jesus then Christopher you cant tell anyone when Jesus will come back unless your THE FATHER and I dont think you are , also Rapture or being caught up can also be moving from one place to another snatched up quick moved from one area and lets face it God had the israelites up where the ten plaques didnt harm them , and then theres enoch , elijah went up , and lot and his family escaped the destruction , and Noah and his family were kept from harm so GOD CAN SAVE those who he choses cant he ?????
I wont get into a big debate over this since Im once again in the minority I could list things that seem to be talking about two different events but what good would it do , Im saved my wife is saved my children are saved since they are young and believe what a person should believe to be saved they are under the age of accountability , so when God comes he comes and I believe many christians wont be fooled why would they ? through out history christians fought and died for what they believed in some left the faith. remember there is a multitude of gentile believers saved being killed for there faith ( AND SINCE Most Christian believe in a rapture wouldnt this murdered group include them if there wasnt a rapture ? they wont just give up the faith they will fight and re ajust there beliefs on this .
God Bless .
RasulJacob remember God knows Best .
October 14th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Christopher:
Yes, I have considered the ramifications of the danger that the pre/mid rapture doctrine presents to the church. Do not pursume to know what level of understnading and knowledge someone else has.
You are representing yourself with the truth and shouting (all caps) to those who ‘you’ think cling to FALSE DOCTRINE. You are on dangerous ground, claiming that we (really you) KNOW what the word of God says. To think that you are hear to dispel myths for the rest of the group because you can see the ‘evidence’ that others ignor is a step too far. I am concerned about the sensibilites of others. That offense will come to those who are not prepared to receive the truth is just out of place on this blog. Finally, I, and I believe most of the people here are not choosing to believe whatever they want.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Most of you will probably disregard the main
thought of this article since many @ this site
appear to be fairly set in their beliefs.
However-I found it somewhat interesting so
see what you think. It’s about how ancient Assyria
may have included the territory of Kenya.
Perhaps someone here knows more about the topic
of ancient territory rights.
http://standeyo.com/NEWS/09_Faith/091013.Kenya-Assyria.html
October 14th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Mitch,
I had no intention of directing any further comments your way because frankly, I didn’t see a need for it. If your above comments were intended to illicit a response from me, well you have your wish; and I’m certain you’ll check this blog letter for my remarks. I guess you could say I simply have the GIFT OF PROPHECY (ohh there I go again making statements in BOLD LETTERS). I’ve noticed, and it appears to me that somehow you’ve decided to personalize the dialogue between us. This is so unnecessary, I can only assume I’ve hit a cord with you. I guess you could say I have that kind of effect on people or at least YOU!
I’m not quite sure what the word PURSUME means, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant “presume”; unless of course I’m fallen back into that trap of “PURSUMING” for you, and in that case I apologize. Interestingly enough I don’t recall presuming the “level of understanding and knowledge that someone else has”. You can infer whatever you want from my earlier comments, but your attempt at rebuking me falls shamefully short of any valid accusation.
Mitch! You say much and appear to lack any real understanding. Why don’t you enlighten me and those who will be reading this blog with your LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWLEDGE.
Who are “WE” that you are referring to in your above comments. This clearly does not refer to me. AGAIN MITCH! Your making ASSUMPTIONS of things that I have never articulated in my blogs. Again, you can infer all you want regarding what you perceived I said, it doesn’t make your OPINION TRUE!.
Mitch, you can ONLY speak for yourself; your not a representative for what you call “THE REST OF THE GROUP”. “They, Them” - allow them to speak for themselves.
I’m glad your concerned for the sensibilities of others and that is GOOD; so am I!
People CHOOSE TO BELIEVE whatever they want everyday. IT’S CALLED CHOICE my friend.
I’m DONE having this discourse with you, like I said earlier I don’t see any point to it. Your APPARENT humility does not work with me. The only person that you should be advocating for outside of Christ on this blog is yourself. David C, I’m sure is able to advocate for himself re: his blogs without you having to come to the rescue like Superman in tights.
I have no desire to respond to anymore of your blogs because simply their fruitless. I PROPHESY THAT YOU’LL SEND ME BLOG. Are you going to make me a prophet Mitch?
October 14th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Christopher, what a burden you carry, having the gift of phrophecy and always beings the smartest person in the room.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Let’s agree to disagree brothers. We all see eye to eye on the essentials, and that’s what matters.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Late Night Lisa,
I had seen the same thing about Kenya before. The Assyrian boundaries varied greatly over its prominence and has been difficult (for me) to determine what the boundaries are/were as referred to in scripture.
Mitchell,
Amen Brother!
October 16th, 2009 at 9:46 am
You don’t believe in a pre trib rapture? The Bible says Gods people are NOT appointed unto wrath. The tribulation is the wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb. Did God lie? The correct interpitation of one scripture is I will keep you FROM the hour of testing that will come upon all the Earth not through, FROM. Did God mis speak? You don’t believe in a pre trib rapture? Do you know more than God? IF the church is the bride of Christ and goes through the tribulation then when the Church is called home Christ will receive a bloody beaten bride to call his own isn’t that wonderful, bet he’s looking forward to that.
October 16th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Sam, here is my view for your consideration:
The Bible is clear that we are promised to be saved from the wrath of God, but we read about the wrath of God during the tribulation in Revelation, and many like yourself will therefore ask, how can the rapture be post-trib? I believe that the answer to this question is in the text itself. All we need to do is figure out what the intended meaning is.
First, here are all the verses that are used to support a pre-trib rapture:
1 Thess 1:10, “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
1 Thess 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”
Romans 5:9, “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
Eph 5:6, “Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”
Now, if we exegete the text let’s see what we discover in the Greek:
1 Thess 1:10, — The wrath that we will be delivered from is the Greek “orge” (G3709).
1 Thess 5:9, — The wrath that we are not appointed to is the Greek “orge” (G3709).
Romans 5:9, — The wrath that we are saved from is the Greek “orge” (G3709).
Eph 5:6, — The wrath upon those who are disobedient is the Greek “orge” (G3709).
The word “wrath” is found 13 times in Revelation from the Greek word “thymos” and “orge”, but the “orge” of God that we are promised to be saved from is only found six times. Each time “orge” is used it is in a post-trib context:
1 and 2. It is mentioned AFTER the cosmic signs and the revealing of Christ Jesus (Rev 6:16-17). Jesus tells us in no uncertain terms that these signs happen immediately AFTER the tribulation (Matt 24:29). (Due to the Semitic styling that John used for the Book of Revelation, the seven seals are a general overview of the tribulation from start to finish).
3. It is found AFTER the SEVENTH trumpet (Rev 11:18).
4. It is used to describe the final torment of unbelievers in hell (Rev 14:10).
5. It is found AFTER the SEVENTH bowl (Rev 16:19).
6. It is used in connection with Christ’s Second Coming (Rev 19:15).
Therefore, even if the rapture does not happen until after the tribulation, we are still saved from the “orge” of God as promised.
As for Revelation 3:10, if we exegete the text the way that we should I believe very strongly that we will discover this verse does not, in any way shape or form, give any support to the idea of a pre-trib rapture. Rev 3:10 reads, “Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, that shall come upon all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth.”
Jesus says “keep thee from”, not “remove thee from”, we would agree to this point I am sure. Now, the Greek for “keep thee from” in Revelation 3:10 is “tereo ek” and is the exact wording used in John 17:15: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”
The Greek “tereo” means “to attend to carefully; take care of; to guard; to reserve; to keep, one IN THE STATE IN WHICH HE IS” and does not mean to remove from the earth but to rather watch over DURING the time of testing. Jesus even prayed in John 17:15 “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world”. Revelation 3:10 is saying that we will be kept from the hour of temptation by being watched over, guarded, during this time and not removed from it. Many of us have children that attend public school, but we keep them from false teachings such as evolution, right? How? We watch over them and keep them grounded in the Truth of Scripture, not by removing them from school.
Let’s look at some other translations and how they’ve rendered Revelation 3:10:
Rev 3:10, “Because you kept my Word in passionate patience, I’ll keep you safe in the time of testing that will be here soon, and all over the earth, every man, woman, and child put to the test.” (MSG)
Rev 3:10, “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.” (NLT)
Rev 3:10, “You have obeyed my word and been patient. So I will keep you safe in the time of trouble which will come all over the world. It will test the people who live on earth.” (WE)
Rev 3:10, “You obeyed my message and endured. So I will protect you from the time of testing that everyone in all the world must go through.” (CEV)
Now, is this being watched over physical in nature, or something else?
The Greek word for “endure” or “persevere” is “hypomone” (G5281) which means “steadfastness” or “steadfast waiting for” or “patiently enduring”. Per the context we see that “perseverance” is closely related to the “hour of testing,” which is “peirasmos” (G3986) and means to “examine” or “prove”. Peirasmos is frequently translated, “to tempt” which is important because Scripture tells us that it is Satan who tempts. 1 Thess 3:5 reads “For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter (Satan) might have tempted you, and our labor should be in vain”. James 1:2,12 tell us “Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials (peirasmois). Blessed is the man that perseveres (hypomone) under trial (peirasmon).” In the next verse James says that God “does not tempt anyone.” This refers to the “hour of testing” in Rev 3:10 using the identical Greek word: “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer… Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing (peirasmos), as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing; so that also at the revelation of His glory, you may rejoice with exultation” (1 Peter 4:7,12,13). As previously mentioned, Christ reveals His Glory after the tribulation (Matt 24:30). Moreover, in 2 Peter 2:9 we read “then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation (peirasmos), and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment.” In both cases the believer is present during the peirasmos and not removed from it.
So, even though there are those who are killed during the Great Tribulation they are not necessarily kept safe physically per Rev 3:10 (though I am sure that God can do that if it be His will), but are kept from the deception and temptation of the evil during this time. Many will die “for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God” because they will not have “worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.” The soul is more important than the body. The protection is primarily spiritual, not physical.
By the way, Christians are being beheaded and murdered every day, today, and are losing their lives for their faith in Christ Jesus. In fact, it is estimated that between 150,000 and 200,000 are being killed every year simply because they are Christian, and it is growing. Where is their pre-trib rapture?
http://www.prophecynet.com/showthread.php?t=26343
October 16th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Sam says, “The tribulation is the wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb. Did God lie?”
God does not lie, but those of us who superimpose a preconceived idea onto the Biblical text can often misinterpret. I see this same argument repeatedly from those who believe in a pre-trib rapture. But, can you please show — through Scripture — why you believe that the tribulation is the wrath of God that we are not appointed to suffer?
This often goes hand-in-hand with the pre-trib belief that the tribulation is the Day of the Lord, which I believe is again another misinterpretation of the text.
Pastor Tim Warner of the Oasis Christian Church lays out reasons why that assumption is incorrect exegetically and hermeneutically.
Following are nine biblical reasons why the Day of the Lord cannot include the tribulation, as pre-tribbers claim, but must follow it.
1. Joel 2:31/Acts 2:20 and Matthew 24:29/Mark 13:24 place the same cosmic signs between the END of the tribulation and the BEGINNING of the Day of the Lord. The two cannot overlap, otherwise these verses could not be true.
2. In Isaiah two, the very first time the Day of the Lord is mentioned in the Bible, Isaiah wrote that THE LORD ALONG will be exalted in that day. This is an exclusive statement. Since, during the last half of the tribulation, the Antichrist will be worshipped as God, the two cannot overlap [cf. Isaiah 2:11,12,17 & Rev. 13:12]. The Antichrist cannot be worshipped in the Day of the Lord, since Isaiah says the Lord ALONE will be exalted. Also, all idols will be abolished during the Day of the Lord. Yet, during the tribulation, the image of the Beast, and other idols will be worshipped. [cf. Isaiah 2:18 & Rev. 9:20,21 & Rev. 13:15].
3. Zechariah 14:7 indicates that the Day of the Lord is a 24 hour day. The Hebrew text says: “that day shall be one.” [See also: Isa. 10:17]
4. Three times the phrase “the Day of the LORD COMETH” is used in the Old Testament. [Isaiah 13:9, Joel 2:1, Zech. 14:1]. In each case the text immediately begins to describe the battle of Armageddon. The word “cometh” is the Hebrew word “bow” [Strong’s #935], a verb meaning to come or arrive. It implies the beginning of the Day of the Lord. In all three cases, the ARRIVAL of the Day of the Lord brings the battle of Armageddon. In the New Testament, twice it is said the Day of the Lord “cometh” as a theif in the night (1 Thess. 5:1,2 & 2 Peter 3:10). In both cases the immediate destruction of the wicked occurs. Paul says “sudden destruction” overtakes the wicked, and Peter says the land will be devoured by fire along with the scoffers.
5. Joel 3:9-17 describes the gathering of the armies of the nations around Jerusalem for the battle of Armageddon, the cosmic signs, and the coming of the Lord. AFTER the armies are gathered, but BEFORE the cosmic signs, Joel wrote that the Day of the Lord is “near.” The Hebrew word means “at hand,” “imminent,” or “next in sequence” [Strong’s #7138]. The Day of the Lord must begin AFTER the armies of the nations are gathered for the battle, which occurs at the end of the tribulation, according to Rev. 16:13-16.
6. According to Revelation 16, The armies of the nations are gathered at the end of the tribulation for “the battle of the great day of God Almighty. Therefore, the “Day of God” is clearly after the tribulation when the battle occurs. Peter shows us that the terms “Day of God” and “Day of the Lord” are synonymous, by using them interchangably when repeating himself [2 Peter 3:10,12]. (This is the only other occurrence of the phrase “Day of God” in the Bible.)
7. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB/NIV says the “Day of the Lord” will not come until AFTER the “falling away,” and the revelation of the “man of sin.” Verse 4 indicates how he will be revealed, by defiling the Temple at the mid-point of the tribulation, [see: Matt. 24:15]. Therefore, the Day of the Lord cannot begin before the mid-point of the tribulation.
8. According to Mal. 4:5, Elijah the prophet will come BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes. Most agree that Elijah is one of the two witnesses in Revelation. Therefore, the Day of the Lord cannot begin until after the two witnesses come.
9 There are many synonyms for the “Day of the Lord” in the New Testament. We know that on the Day of the Lord, the “Lord” who comes in power “with all His saints” in Zech. 14:1-6 is Jesus Christ [cf. Zech. 14:1-6, Acts 1:9-12, 1 Thess. 3:13]. We also know that there are various combinations of Jesus’ name in the New Testament, including; Jesus, Christ, Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus Christ, and Lord. Since the simplest explaination is almost always correct, it is very likely that all of the following phrases are speaking of the same day. Day of Christ [Phil. 1:10], Day of Jesus Christ [Phil. 1:6], Day of the Lord Jesus Christ [1 Cor. 1:8], Day of the Lord Jesus [1 Cor. 5:5], Day of the Lord [1 Thess. 5:2], Day of God [2 Pet. 3:12], Day of God Almighty [Rev. 16:14]. [See also referrences to “the Great Day:” Zeph. 1:14, Jude 1:6, Rev. 6:17, Rev. 16:14.]
October 16th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Sam,
you said,
“IF the church is the bride of Christ and goes through the tribulation then when the Church is called home Christ will receive a bloody beaten bride to call his own isn’t that wonderful, bet he’s looking forward to that.”
Consider your tone bro and also think of all the martyrs in church history. Will they be resurrected beaten and shameful to the lord or glorified.
October 17th, 2009 at 1:44 am
About the bloody beaten bride… didn’t we receive a bloody beaten Christ?
October 17th, 2009 at 2:03 am
Another thing… just a thought to throw out there for you all, cuz you are all so knowledgeable (I don’t know much of anything, and that’s no lie!)
Has anyone thought if maybe we aren’t the ones to be taken away in the tribulation? Don’t start throwing stones at me guys, I’m just thinking that with Noah, only Noah and his family survived and the ones taken away were the evil ones…. with Sodom and Gamorah … etc.
What if we, the believers, will be the ones “left behind” to fight the battle with Yeshua? Is that a possibility in looking at the Scriptures with that point of view?
When I first heard of a pre-trib teaching I remember telling my husband that if I had a choice, I would rather stay and help those who didn’t “make it”, and fight for the Kingdom!!!
October 17th, 2009 at 7:22 am
Wendy,
What you’re saying may be correct, at least in part. Many pre-trib proponents refer to Matthew 24 where it says “one will be taken and the other left”, believing that the one that is left missed the rapture, a la LaHaye’s “Left Behind” series. Conversely, they believe those that are “taken” will be taken in the rapture. But let’s examine the parallel passage in Luke to see where these “taken” souls really will be going;
Lk 17:34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.’” 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
Those that are “taken” are taken to where the “dead” are, and “vultures” gather. Instead of being raptured, they will actually be “taken” in judgment. So when someone tells me I don’t want to be “left behind”, I tell them I do.
October 17th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Wendy and Michael, you’re correct. The pattern has always been that God removes the wicked, and the righteous remain. We see it with Noah and with Sodom & Gomorrah, for example.
2 Pet 2:5-9, “And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.”
Jesus even said that this is how it would be when He returns.
Matthew 24:39, “And knew not until the flood came, AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
http://www.lightofmashiach.org/post_trib_rapture.html
October 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Mitchell,
Thanks for that website!!!! I’m loving it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!