Does Bible really predict Russian invasion of Israel?
WND: Joel Richardson: If you are a student of Bible prophecy, I have some shocking news. I want to shatter a very popular prophecy myth.
Russia is not about to invade the land of Israel. In fact, Russia is never even spoken of in Biblical prophecy. Despite all of the hype and discussion that has been devoted in recent years to casting Russia as the leader of a soon-coming invasion of Israel, the Bible simply doesn’t substantiate this.
By writing this article, I’ll probably upset some of my colleagues. I may even get a few e-mails accusing me of secretly working for Vladimir Putin himself. But I am called to teach what the Bible teaches, not what is popularly held among my contemporaries.
For those who are not familiar with the argument, a very common belief among many Bible prophecy buffs is that Ezekiel 38 and 39, popularly referred to as “the Battle of Gog and Magog,” portrays a Russian-led invasion of Israel. Many believe that this invasion is just over the horizon. Dozens of books have been written under this premise.
Before we look at the actual text, allow me to lay some groundwork. One of the easiest mistakes when attempting to understand what the Bible teaches with regard to the last days is to “miss the forest for the trees.” It’s easy to get too caught up in the over-analysis of certain passages in isolation while missing the grand narrative that all the prophets proclaim.
What exactly is that big story? It’s actually fairly simple:
Understand the significance of the Muslim’s Mahdi ‘messiah’ in Joel Richardson’s new book, “The Islamic Antichrist: The Shocking Truth about the Real Nature of the Beast.” Note: The book is also available in electronic form at reduced price through Scribd.
At the end of the age, the nation of Israel will enter into a comprehensive peace treaty or “covenant” with the surrounding nations. This covenant will be mediated by the man whom Christians call “the Antichrist.” The result will be a false sense of peace and security for the Jewish nation. But three and a half years after this peace treaty is established, the Antichrist will violate the treaty and invade the land of Israel. He will be successful, and Israel’s power will be shattered. But out of the darkest night comes the brightest light: God Himself, through the Messiah, will intervene and save His people. Then the Messiah will re-establish the throne of King David on Mt. Zion and rule the nations with “a rod of iron.” Righteousness will fill the earth. The Messianic reign that follows is called the Millennium.
So that’s the big picture. This prophetic story is told and retold over and over again throughout the Bible. All of the prophets were ultimately speaking about and looking toward this time.
Now, lets look at Ezekiel 38 and 39. Portrayed in this passage is a large end-time coalition of nations joining together to invade the land of Israel. The leader of this coalition is called “Gog.” The invasion concludes with God present in Israel and the armies of Antichrist utterly defeated. Identical to the story above, right?
Yet despite the obvious commonalities Ezekiel 38-39 shares with the larger end-time narrative, many believe instead teach that Gog is a different evil end-time world leader other than the Antichrist; Gog’s massive multi-nation army is a different multi-nation army other than the army of the Antichrist; the massive invasion of Israel is a different invasion than the invasion to be led by the Antichrist; the defeat and judgment of this invading hoard is a different defeat and judgment than the judgment that will fall on the Antichrist’s invading hoard; the great feast that the animals are invited to enjoy as they devour Gog’s armies is a different great feast than the animals will also enjoy when the Antichrist and his armies are slain (even though the Book of Revelation 19 quotes almost verbatim from Ezekiel). You get the idea.
But here’s the kicker: God Himself directly addresses Gog. And speaking to Gog, God says that he is the same evil invader that all of the former prophets spoke about:
This is what Yahweh the Sovereign says: Are you (Gog) not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel? At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them (Ezekiel 38:17).
So here’s my question: If Gog is Russia, and if all of the former prophets spoke about Russia, then why is there not one single passage anywhere in the Bible that speaks about Russia? In fact, I challenge anyone who teaches that Gog is Russia to come forth with a single verse to prove me wrong. And although I am no prophet myself, I can confidently predict that no one will rise to the challenge, simply because there are none.But there are more portions of the passage that are also insurmountable for those who claim that Gog precedes the Antichrist.
Consider this: After the destruction of the Gog Magog armies, from that day forward, all of Israel will turn wholly to God:
So the house of Israel shall know that I am Yahweh their God from that day forward (Ezekiel 39:22).
And not just Israel; literally the whole world will know that Yahweh alone is God:They that dwell carelessly in the isles … they shall know that I am Yahweh. … the nations shall know that I am Yahweh, the Holy One in Israel (Ezekiel 39:6-7).
But even more crucially, after this time, God’s name would no longer be profaned:I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I Yahweh am the Holy One in Israel (Ezekiel 39:7).
If these events take place a few years before the emergence of the Antichrist, then how could God say that His name would no longer be profaned? The Antichrist will be the leader of the greatest and most blasphemous religious movement that the world will ever see.[He] will say unheard-of things against the God of gods (Daniel 11:36).
(Column continues below)Again, how could God say that His name would no longer be profaned if this passage precedes the coming of the Antichrist who will literally spend three and a half years openly blaspheming God’s name? How does this make any sense at all?
So, is Ezekiel speaking about a minor run up to the “Great and Terrible Day of the Lord” as so many today widely teach? Nyet. This is simply not what the passage says. Rather it is the very Day; the same “Day of the Lord” that all the prophets speak about:
It is coming! It will surely take place, declares Yahweh the Sovereign. This is the day I have spoken of (Ezekiel 39:8).
Could it be any clearer? Everything about the events and language in this passage indicate that this war is no mere opening act to the Great Tribulation, but is rather the glorious capstone of that period.Now, if you are a student of prophecy, I’m sure that you are brimming with objections. Again, this is merely an article, not a book. Many will surely point to the fact that Russia has been doing things such as arming Iran and Syria and other rouge and anti-Semitic nations. I agree. But didn’t the United States also virtually create and put Saddam Hussein in place? Didn’t the United States also fund the rise of the Taliban? Don’t we prop up the Saudis despite the fact that they are the première source of funding for jihad throughout the earth? Ah-hem. So the point is not about whatever highly objectionable things Russia is doing. The only point here is what the Bible says. And on the subject of Russia, the Bible is silent. What nation, then, is Ezekiel speaking about? From what nation does Gog come from? As I explain in “Islamic Antichrist,” and in my “Islam & The End Times” DVDs, Gog comes from Turkey – but that discussion is for another time.
Suffice it to say that if you are a Russian, you may now breathe a sigh of relief: The Bible has not cast you as the soon coming object of His wrath. Mr. Putin, you may wire my payment directly into my secret bank account, or if you wish, I also have a Google Checkout Account set up.
September 6th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
While I appreciate,enjoy and agree actually with the teaching on this subject,
I also know the other side of it:Ezekiel 38:2’s Gog,Magog,Meshech and Tubal.
Speaking of parts of northern Asia and Europe.Meshech’s descendants being
the Moschi and root word from which comes,Moscow.
Verse six speaks of Gomer and Togarmah which were located in the extreme south west of Europe and Asia,the former Soviet republic of Armenia.Those things being considered it is not a far stretch to see the king of the north as Russia.
I really do not have a lot of information other than these notes.
I will say in support of the article,that I see no reason to separate this event,from that battle with the ac’s armies.Jim
September 6th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
good article Joel. I once asked these same questions on rapture ready discussion board. But they wouldn’t even discuss it. They just lock out the post. Im sure some will attack you for this. Its like some people want to see israel get attacked. keep it up though, your changing a lot of minds and getting them back to the scriptures.
September 6th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Check out this thread over on the RR forums: http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=107424
Good article, get the word out.
September 6th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Scythian. Mentioned by Paul as the lowest type of barbarian (Col. 3: 11). The Scythians were all pastoral tribes who dwelt to the north of the Black Sea and the Caspian (which included Southern Russia.
Also regarding Daniels’ KING of the NORTH and how he compares to other scripture see:
http://jeenyus.net/~budney/bible/expodan/c966.html
September 6th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Thanks Joel for sharing this. I’m taking it all in. There is just one area of confusion perhaps you can clear up. In light of what you shared about the invasion of Israel being the capstone of that period, The Day of the Lord, how does Ezekiel 39:9-14 fit into this, particularly where it says the weapons of that war will be burnt for seven years?
If Joel doesn’t answer this himself can anyone else answer from what you’ve read in his books or from your personal study?
September 7th, 2009 at 12:50 am
God Bless you all .
now then watchman about 98% of the people if not 99% of the people here on this website believe gog is antichrist and that its the last war .
my friend Joel and I have sparred about this for years even becoming to heated and we have both had some good talks about this and I myself am the alone man on this I believe its possible that gog is not the antichrist hold on now > see I believe the bible talks not just about the anitchrist I believe that the bible also talks about the false prophet I think he is mentioned in the old test not just in the new does anyone else agree with me or am I standing alone again ?
saying that I also think things happen in the bible over and over again just like the temple is repeativly destroyed and rebuilt ect ect …
I also want you all to know russia’s military by 2015 0r so will be 1/3 muslim oh yes there becoming an islamic country slowly but they are .
also Gog of magog is a guard and defender to magog area now think about this “Be thou a guard” gog yes russia is a guard to Ossetia and did you know russia is also still in parts of the country georgia ? The Scythians, according to Herodotus, were located north of the Black Sea, the southern part of the River Danube being their western border The Ister [Danube] is of all the rivers with which we know the mightiest . . . Counting them from the west it is the first of the Scythian rivers”.In the last days, southern Russia and also Ukraine constitute the ancient heartlands of the Scythians. The influence of the Scythians also stretched down into the Caucasus, between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea. yes I know some maps show turkey of course its apart as well I will not debate this I just always put something like this up everytime I see Joel putting something about russia or gog magog down I can live with myself now for speaking my mind and no I dont think gog magog or russia is about to attack Israel I just think to totally leave russia out is not right considering it supplies so many nations with weapons , and its economy is better then turkey’s and the other nations around there , and there the only ones who can field an great army as of not in that area so all im saying is stranger things have happend and Im okay with being the only one that believes its possible .
Rasuljacob and Peace to all .
September 7th, 2009 at 2:42 am
And Another by Doug Krieger
http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/dougkrieger/prophetic_sequence_pt6.htm
THREE WARS
&
ONE PEACE TREATY
September 7th, 2009 at 4:32 am
@Jim L.
In case you did not know, the following is a much broader and deeper discussion by Joel of Gog:
http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=1973
I think this clarifies some issues which Joel did not address in his above article.
September 7th, 2009 at 7:31 am
JustME,
For clarity, I should have highlighted that the references to “Russia” would have to be before Ezekiel:
This is what Yahweh the Sovereign says: Are you (Gog) not the one I spoke of in former days by my servants the prophets of Israel? At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them (Ezekiel 38:17).
Scythia composed primarily Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and a bit of Russia. But again, this was several hundreds years after Ezekiel, and there is certainly no reference to any end time invasion of Israel.
The King of the North in Daniel (Daniel also came after Ezekiel chronologically) is a reference to Antiochus and the Seleucid Empire and is also the Antichrist. Indeed it is the same as Gog, as both are Kings of the North, as is Antichrist in the Book of Joel. No need to make things more complex than they already are.
At the time of the end the king of the South (Egypt) will engage him in battle, and the king of the North (Antichrist) will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He (Antichrist) will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. (Daniel 11:40-42)
If you believe that the King of the North is not the Antichrist but rather another King from Russia, then he must also be the one who “will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.”
“And I will never again make you a reproach among the nations. I will drive the northern army far from you, pushing it into a parched and barren land, with its front columns going into the eastern sea and those in the rear into the western sea. And its stench will go up; its smell will rise.” Surely he has done great things. (Joel 2:19-20)
In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it? You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you… a mighty army… You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land… I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. (Ezekiel 38:14-16; 39:1-3)
But most modern teachers would not say that Gog and the King of the North are one and the same as that would make Gog a contemporary and actual enemy / competitor of the AC, whereas they usually have Gog killed off several years prior in order to create a scenario whereby Islam would be eliminated. And again, the AC is said to invade many lands and sweep through them like a flood.
As for the burning of weapons, this creates no problem. Jesus returns, life goes on. If it is literal, then it speaks of wood for fire and fuel. If allegorical like the other references to the Millennium: Swords are beat into plowshares. Either way, life under Jesus on the earth is a very real life.
September 7th, 2009 at 8:27 am
I laughed at your last paragraph, Joel…Putin to wire $$$ to your Google checkout acct….lol….too funny….
September 7th, 2009 at 9:03 am
@Ray B: About the 7 years’ burning of weapons, Walid Shoebat and/or Joel make the point in God’s War On Terror that the reference to 7 years isn’t necessarily a time marker given to tie the events to the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. After all, if this invasion were to occur at the beginning of the 70th week, why would they then be burning weapons all the way to the end of that seven-year period? Wouldn’t they need the weapons?
September 7th, 2009 at 9:32 am
why would they then be burning weapons all the way to the end of that seven-year period? Wouldn’t they need the weapons?
A warhed unexploded and de-weaponized for civil use (eletric power) i DIMONA perhaps?
September 7th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Joel, I appreciate your attempts to seek out the truth. While i do not claim to be a Bible scholar, I do have extensive training (Th.B.). While the subject matter of Gog/Magog is not crucial to one’s salvation, I would only caution you on presenting “new revelation” about Bible interpretation that does not comport with the scholarly works of many, many reliable scholars whom have toiled in Bible study more than selling sensational books. I have studied the subject to some extent and find nothing in your proof that would tend to deflect me from the works of Keil and Delitzsch, Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, ISBE, and many others.
CAUTION: “My Brethren, be not many teachers , knowing that we shall undergo a severer judgment” (James 3:1)
September 7th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Mike,
I’m in full agreement. In fact, I always strive to hold to that which is historically orthodox as much as possible. Eschatology obviously is different than with most other segments of theology however. The Church has always struggled with this issue. And to be honest, the “new” was over-hyped. I do not claim any “new revelation”. My position is actually no different than many others. Dave Hunt holds that Gog is the AC. The Jewish position is also that Gog is the same evil end time world leader that all of the prophets have spoken about. My position is also supported by Brown Driver Brigg’s Lexicon. In brief, the idea that Gog is Russia is actually far “newer” than most would assume. Ever since Gensenius held forth this notion, most have done so ever since. But in recent years, the Scofield notion that Meshech=Moscow, Tubal=Tbilisi, Gomer=Germany has been entirely rejected by the majority of scholars. Yet many still hold onto Gog as Russia. In the end, I am only challenging a newer position that is held by a small minority with regard to the history of the Church. But thank you for your word of caution. I am in full agreement.
Bless you, Joel
September 7th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Peace everyone .
some believe the king of the north who comes down on the antichrist , and the king of the south attacks the antichrist as well this is one theory ?
also is that remember the antichrist towards the end of his career is worried alarmed about news from the north and the east ( kings of the east ) so many believe several things also like my main belief is that babylon is babylon or the area around there passages in old and new speak of the same babylon , and well it doesnt say russia , turkey or iran as babylon the great . when it speaks of babylon in isaiah and jer , rev and others it refers to babylon so for now ill stay with what ever nation country or country is ruling over that part of babylon and the assyrian part yes I know there no other major force there right now besides america but in time this will be worked out as the other things as well Joel knows my top picks for where the king of babylon , will come from .
I believe we can agree as usual to disagree about the gog magog thing just watch and see right now it doesnt seem to be turkey being gog og magog but that can change I at least am willing to admit it I am not boxed in to a set system and its tough on hal lindsey types and Joel for that matter once you write a book which is a blessing you get boxed in and cant change your mind in print although Perry Stone has he believed in the European antichrist belief system and then has changed now for about 8 years or so . so it can be done I believe this is good for a person to be able to change his opinion given the current events can open peoples eyes to many thing . we can fight over debate over many things but let us keep it in check alittle since we dont want the enemy to gain ground and see us divided as he has done in the past theres enough time later after Jesus comes to have him settle the differences and make straight the crooked paths to smooth out the rough edges .
So blessing to you all . Joel shalom .
RasulJacob
September 7th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Joel, Its funny how people don’t listen when their mind is made up. Noone has taken your challenge. Here was your quote “So here’s my question: If Gog is Russia, and if all of the former prophets spoke about Russia, then why is there not one single passage anywhere in the Bible that speaks about Russia? In fact, I challenge anyone who teaches that Gog is Russia to come forth with a single verse to prove me wrong. And although I am no prophet myself, I can confidently predict that no one will rise to the challenge, simply because there are none.” Anyone?…….Hello?….. anyone there?……
September 7th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
i have told you magog land has russia within it , also the mountains by russia , turkey an iraq have many countries within it georgia , armenia ect look who controlled it russia even the ukraine . look at my post above . Is it not true that the biblical prophets talk about others and not just the antichrist ? does the bible talk of the false prophet ? or any other evil people attacking israel ? like ive asked before ? you could say joel might talk of russia or an islamic invasion assyrian .
i will not argue about this as Joel and I have gotten very heated over this I am up to admiting I could be wrong of course im human . but I value joels friendship so I wont get into this anymore .
RasulJacob
September 7th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Joel,
If I understand it correctly (at least in part), you’re essentially making a clear distinction between the ‘former Soviet Union’ and present day Russia. Some elements of the ‘former Soviet Union’ could indeed be part of the AC/Gog forces?
September 7th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Ezek 38 and 39 are quite clear that he is speaking about todays Russia. He says the FAR North several times some versions say utter most parts of the North - if a line is laid from the North Pole to temple mount it runs just west of Moscow - It is Moscow that is supplying the nuclear abilities and other weapons to Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Lebanon and other nations in this Ezekiel alliance - many many nations within Russia and even Russia itself are either already Muslin nations or fastly becoming Muslin nations. One of Russias greatest fears is the growth of Islam within its own borders. It is also Russia that is building ports for their warships in Syria, Libya and other areas surrounding Israel - The issue of the weapons of war being burnt for seven years and dead being buried for seven months would indicate that this is not the final war - also the birds of prey eating their fill of flesh would indicate a spring war possibly during the season of Purim as this is the migration season for millions and millions of birds of prey returning from Africa to Europe and Northern Asia flying directly over Israel during the Eilet Bird Festival in Eilet Israel.
September 7th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Joel,
Another good article on WND. I was wondering if you had got any response from WND readership or other writers at WND, good or bad. Even if people don’t fully agree with your conclusions it is always good to make people think.
September 7th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Joel, is there any way you could have WND remove the words “new interpretation” from the title? Like you said, it’s not a new interpretation, but is more of the traditional interpretation.
September 7th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
There are 2 specific mentions of Gog and Magog in the Bible. Gog is mentioned not only in Ezekiel but also in Revelation. Revelation 20:7-10 (New International Version)
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—GOG AND MAGOG—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The leader of this army is called Gog and his army is Magog. If Gog of Ezekiel and Gog of Revelation are two seperate entities. What would the similiarities be to merit both having the same name? Will the Russian(Gog) led army(Magog) be ressurrected a thousand years after the first Gog? I think not….They must be referring to the same entity, and that entity is Satan himself…The Antichrist and Gog of revelation are essentially the same.
Consider this again, “This is what Yahweh the Sovereign says: Are you (Gog) not THE ONE I SPOKE OF IN FORMER DAYS by my servants the prophets of Israel? At that time they prophesied for years that I would bring you against them (Ezekiel 38:17).
The question must be asked then,if Gog and Magog are spoken of by Israels former prophets prior to Ezekiel, then where are all of these references? But if we take the position that Gog is the Antichrist, then it is very easy to find numerous passages about the Antichrist and his invading armies throughout the prophets.
September 7th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
GOG
1. Amos 7:1 “Thus the Lord showed me, and behold a swarm of locusts were coming, and behold, one of the young devastating locusts was Gog, the King. Septuagint LXX
2.Gog also appears in Revelation 20:8-9 at the end of the 1000 year Millennial reign of Christ.
“And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the 4 quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
3.Ezekiel 38:2-3 “Son of man, set thy face against God, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
gog hinted at in Proverbs 30:27 “The locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands.
Sumerian word, Gog means darkness
I gave some info without being for or against the arguement and I hope we unite and not divide the body time will tell and if you guys are right then praise God either way God wins thats all that should really matter I have the dvds that Joel gave me , I have seen David Hunt at the Calvary chaple church I went to in california I know all sides of this arguement .
I believe people on everyside mean well do we not all agree ?
So lets pray , study and let the scales on all of our eyes fall so we can see clearly remember even the disciples and learned men of the day missed some of the stuff Jesus talked about remember the Disciples always seemed to lose focus or be confused up until the Resurrection does this make them bad or somehow a less worthy part of the body of Christ ?
RasulJacob the arguement will burn itself out since I wont be apart of it and then who will you guys debate ? each other ?
Peace
September 7th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Screaming Eagle,
As far as what forces will be with Gog, this is quite open. While Ezekiel lists the primary nations, it also leaves it open: “and many nations with you”.
My point is simply that Gog is not Russia as so many claim today. Biblically, it is impossible. If it were so, then it would be easy to produce abundant proofs of this from the prophets as God said, (my paraphrase) “You are the one that all of the (former, before Ezekiel) prophets spoke about for many years when they prophesied that I was going to bring you against them.”
Its actually just like the Evolution issue. Despite the utter lack of fossil evidence, some still cling to the idea that Darwinism must be true. So far, I have not seen a single reference to Russia in the “former Prophets.” Just more of the same. Russia must be in the Bible because she is doing thus and such. Irrelevant. The only issue is what the Bible says.
Also, the other question I asked is; God says that after the defeat of Gog / Magog, His name will no longer be profaned… Form that day forward, Israel will know their God… How can this take place years before the coming of the blasphemous one and his world religion? It makes no sense…
September 7th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
A point which also needs be made is that Gog-as-Russia believers ignore the fact this will be a military campaign. There is a certain board game approach to simply saying Russia will lead a large confederation into Israel; voila, there they are! However the Soviet Union probably never had, and Russia today certainly lacks the strategic reach to overcome the time, distance, terrain, and hostile countries needed to be the most likely candidate to be Gog.
Russia had considerable trouble just subduing Georgia last summer. At the time Georgia had about one regiment of fully trained troops. Yet, despite many months of planning and staging, Russia took weeks to secure the objectives they planned.
Strategically, an Israeli campaign would be unlike anything Russia has ever tried. Many hundreds of miles of hostile, dry, difficult terrain, lie between southern Russia and Israel. Just moving the required forces and logistics into southern Russia would heavily tax the rather weak Russian army. The fuel, food, maintenance, and ammunition needed to reach Israel would be well beyond their capability.
Moreover there is no reason to believe that Turkey, a Muslim nation with the first or second biggest army in NATO, is simply going to let this infidel Army cross Islamic territory to attack Israel. Turkey is increasingly rebuilding its bona fides as a Muslim leader. What no eschatologist denies is that Turkey today has many of the tribes enumerated in Ezekiel. Other, like Joel, would say most, and when you add in the other Muslim republics in the area, it would be all the non-African actors. While Turkey can make a fairly quick strike through Syria into Israel (presumably carrying the banner as Islam’s new caliphate), Russia would first have to cross the formidable Turkish terrain, probably fighting Turks as it went. Militarily is seems impossible.
Some may say if the Germans could invade the Middle East in WWII, or the U.S. dis so today, surely Russia can too. But the German forces were not nearly the size one anticipates out of Gog, and Germany had the largest strategic lift in the world at the beginning of WWII. As to the U.S., what the U.S. did with strategic lift in WWII and in the Gulf Wars, is historically unprecedented and a quantum leap beyond anything Russia even could hope for.
September 7th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
I will add that the idea of China moving 200 MILLION troops from China to Israel is preposterous. Now, countries like Iran and Iraq exciting and logistically supporting their people to make the one week foot march toward Israel is certainly conceivable.
September 7th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Gallo, Nobody says they have to do it over land. A large movement by sea is much more likely anyhow and Russia has already showed their hand in coordination with Syria about that. Not taking sides but that’s not a good enough argument in and of itself.
September 7th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Though there is legitimacy to the fact that Turkey and Russia are not natural allies, but rather competitors in the region. If by water, then only with Turkey’s permission through the Bosporus.
By the way, George Friedman, the CEO and founder of Stratfor in his latest book “the Next 100 Years” argues that Turkey is quickly moving to become a global superpower, while Russia will eventually experience a second massive collapse.
September 7th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
I have been wondering about Russia , when Putin was president he said he wanted Russia to return to her Judo christian roots . Last yr Russia built 30,000 christian churches . I’am pleased that you think Russia may not at all be the force that attacks Israel in the latter days . Gog the land of magog the prince of mechech and tubal . who is Mechech and Tubal, where is the far north Pershia , gomer , Ever since Jews returned to Israel maybe it can be said Jews live in saftey . At least they live in safety from there own government . That could feel like saftey to a lot of jews . I hope you are right for My Russians friends sake , I believe Russia has been pulled by a hook in the Jaw to Irans side . I feel United Stated pushed Russia by bombing Yugoslavia and threatening to shoot Russian troops helping NATO. maybe the United States is babylon. or the false profet . So many countries meet some of these descriptions . Al most all the churches could be the false luke warm church . I believe us christians will be able to tell , but the bible says many will be fooled
September 7th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Joel,
Thank you for the clarification. I would love to learn more about this, but as time unfolds at such a rapid pace, I’ll bet we will be reading it in the news before proving it elsewhere.
Nonetheless, I appreciate your diligence in researching this and your interest in the times ahead. You bring several fascinating points to the table that I hope to read about in depth. I too, had thought this was the false prophet rather than the AC..(but then that very likely is/was Mohammed.)
Now…if you could reveal the truth behind the president’s birthplace, we could really be onto something (just kidding with you.)
-justme-
September 7th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
What is most logical? What makes ‘everything’ fit, not just some of the verses? I believe a person (Antichrist/Mahdi ?) will say to his followers when the time is ripe; ‘Allah needs an army, come join me.’ Will this leader have any trouble having 200 million Islamists join him? No, he will not and the hatred of Israel will be the bond that links this army from the ’surrounding nations’. Look at the religious differences first, not just that Russia wants to antagonize the West in an attempt to reclaim a past empire. Russia will probably supply arms to surrogates, but as a military presence, she is in decline. Russia, as opposed to the the old Soviet Union, can not project the power required to fullfil the prophecy. If one wants to include the countries that were in the previous southern areas of the old Soviet Union but are now in the CSI, then that is acceptable but it is also something very different form ‘Russia’. The spirtual conflict is the key (Islam vs. Christ). Keep your frame of reference focused on this (the spiritual conflict) and not some contrived geopolitical alliance.
September 7th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Correction: should read CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States) and not CSI. Those members in the southern portion of the old Soviet Union are where I believe we should direct our focus because they are Islamic.
September 7th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
As to Russia having sea lift, they have little. they would also need a friendly port and staging areas. Where from? I think Turkey would not allow it in Syria, and Israel certainly would not sit idly by as the Russians slowly (lacking sea lift) build a presence in Syria.
Now in a handful of years 40% of all Russian conscripts will be Muslim, and that makes their command and control that much more difficult.
In sum, my argument is that from the point of this being a military campaign, Turkey is the likely agent, rather than Russia, for religious and strategic reasons.
September 8th, 2009 at 6:17 am
Peter Stone Says:
September 7th, 2009 at 2:55 pm e
Joel,
Another good article on WND. I was wondering if you had got any response from WND readership or other writers at WND, good or bad. Even if people don’t fully agree with your conclusions it is always good to make people think
Haven’t heard anything specifically from WND readers per se.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:11 am
When was that incident when Russian submarines were found to have made it to Syria and unloaded weapons en masse years ago? I don’t know the details of how those submarines got to Syria (whether through the Bosporus or from the Adriatic side, but they got through with enough weapons to pose a legitimate threat. To me, that makes much more sense than trying to move them over land for all the reasons mentioned.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:07 am
I apologize for the length of this post, but a lot of issues are addressed herein. I must say that I agree with Joel inasmuch as ‘Gog’ is not Russia, per se. In fact, when we consider that God is Spirit, we must always remember that He is fighting the spiritual war that began when He, in effect, declared war upon Satan. (Gen 3) Gog is, in fact, Satan. Satan is the chief prince of the geopolitical smorgasbord that will make up the force that God draws down upon Israel. God says, “Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal” God cannot be talking to a man for God is not against any man—He sent His Son to die for all men and “For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” (1 Tit 2:3 KJV) God did not ‘declare war’ on man, but on Satan.
The title, ‘chief prince of Meshech and Tubal’ is similar language to that used by the angel who came to Daniel, “But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.” (Dan 10:13 KJV) We know that no mere human prince would have been able to withstand the power of an angel for even one second. The angel was referring to the spiritual authority from Satan’s camp who was the overseer of the Persian Empire at that time. The angel indicated that upon his departure, he would have to deal with the prince of Greece—the next empire to come on the world scene. Satan has positioned some very powerful angels to oversee his empires.
Look further at the hints contained in the names: Gog means ‘mountain.’ It can refer to a kingdom or in this case, since Magog means the ‘land of Gog,’ it can refer to the leader of Magog. I think that Magog actually refers to Satan’s confederacy of nations and then God goes on to name some of the individual confederates. I believe that God refers to Satan and his command center as, Gog. God addresses this entity as the ‘chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.’ Meshech means, ‘drawing out’ and Tubal means, ‘thou shall be brought.’ God stated, “And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth,” (Eze 38:4 KJV) The names are prophetic. This occurs often in Scripture.
Which is the country that has been stirring up trouble throughout the world in our time? Of course, it is the Soviet Union/Russia. Most recently, Russia has been arming all of the nations listed as being among those who will be brought against Israel—the pattern is evident. Satan, himself, is the spiritual mastermind of the unholy alliance that comes against Israel. Russia has an agreement with Iran that if Iran is attacked, Russia will come to its aid. The U.S. has a similar agreement with Israel. Therefore, when either Israel decides to downgrade Iran’s nuclear capability or Iran decides it is time to ‘wipe Israel off the map,’ Russia and the U.S. will be drawn into it. After sparring in Korea, Viet Nam, etc., the gloves will definitely come off as they confront one and other face to face that I believe will result in thermonuclear war. This will bring about the Lord’s return as Matthew 24:21-22 (NIV) relates, “For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.”
Just as God established the seat of His power on Mount Zion, Satan established his in the area of what was the Soviet Union referred to as Gog, meaning, ‘mountain.’ Satan has his chain of command just as God does. Paul taught us, “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].” (Eph 6:12 KJV) There are evil spiritual powers in control of this world right now. The Lord made it very plain that His Kingdom was not of this world. Moreover, even though Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow, he did wrest the rule of this world from Adam and is thus the current ruler. In the Gospel of John, the Lord refers to the ‘prince of this world’ three times.
In Eze 38:17 KJV God says, “Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?” Through the prophets, God warned Israel that He would bring numerous groups against them in response to their idolatry, i.e., Babylonians, Assyrians, etc. Satan inspired all these pagan entities. Satan has always been against the Israelites because he knows that God will bring about His Plan through them, which will culminate in his demise. He actually thinks that he can thwart God, destroy the Israelites and avoid judgment.
I agree that this battle will take place at the end of Jacob’s Trouble because it will be ended by the Lord, Himself, upon His return. Then the prophecy in Ezekiel 39:7 will be fulfilled. In Psalm 74:10, the title, adversary, which is one of Satan’s titles is used when Asaph asks, “O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?” The transliteration of the word is, ‘tsar.’ Other interesting translations of the word ‘adversary’ are ‘satan’ and ‘tsarar.’
In Revelation 20:7-8 (KJV), we are told, “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.” I have always thought that this is the reason that Satan was not thrown into the lake of fire with the beast and the false prophet. He comes out of the pit, returns to his command center and tries yet again to overthrow the Lord.
I believe that the Septuagint translation of Amos 7:1 is incorrect. “Thus the Lord showed me, and behold a swarm of locusts were coming, and behold, one of the young devastating locusts was Gog, the King.” (Septuagint LXX) The word, Gog, is not in the Hebrew of the passage and it is describing two judgments the Lord declared against Israel and of which the He relented upon Amos’ intercession.
I do not know who the AC will be. 2 Timothy 2:7-10 (NIV) states, “For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” My understanding of this passage causes me to believe that we will not know the identity of the AC until as Chuck Missler says, “we will be watching from the mezzanine.” I believe that the Holy Spirit resides in the Body of Christ and is the one who is holding back evil. When the Body of Christ is removed in the Rapture, then the lawless one will come onto the world stage. Under his rule, evil will reach its fullness culminating in the invasion of Israel. Then God will bring His full wrath against the fullness of evil and defeat it in this dispensation.
I do believe that Satan will indwell the person who will be the AC via a fake resurrection. I think that this individual will receive a deadly wound and when his spirit leaves his body then Satan will enter into it and make it look like a resurrection—in his attempt to copy the Lord. Satan will then assume the role of the AC and usher in the Great Tribulation in fulfillment of prophecy.
September 8th, 2009 at 10:11 am
russia , turkey Gods will and plan not mine I can see it being either one and since gog is the leader over some of these areas then its no problem if he is a russian , Turk , or an assyrian correct ? the countries would be okay with uses there land to go down to Israel no matter what country it is since its predicted to happen and wars make strange bedfellows do they not think about all the crazy countries america has been in bed with and it only served our interest only to later say they are an enemy or they were an enemy until we need them then suddenly there a friend that is the only way it could happen of course .
as to arguing about it it hasnt happened here and thats awesome it shows the spirit of debate is good I have rethought some things and prayed and I realize if in the minority of thinking things here everyone has been grown up and I think it shows that we want true discussions and thanks Joel for talking with me and you are a good person .
Peace .
Rasul
September 8th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
What about ASSAD making a SYNCERE PEACE with ISRAEL victim of a shaid-Kamikaze attack and ALIVE even with SEVERE WOUNDS?
September 9th, 2009 at 7:41 am
VL Hale wrote:
Just as God established the seat of His power on Mount Zion, Satan established his in the area of what was the Soviet Union referred to as Gog, meaning, ‘mountain. My question is ‘where’s the beef’? Show me any indication scripturally to support this please.
Re 2:12 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Re 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
September 9th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Pergamos had the biggest altar to Zesus in that day the alter now sits in Germany along with the gate of ishtar from babylon those nazi were crazy about getting things they thought had power in them. The bible in Jer 49 says God will put his throne in Elam that is a strange verse and ive never understood it if anyone knows what the meaning is please share it with me as its one of those verses most never touch .
Rasul
September 9th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Rasul,
This is just speculation, but could it be that He’s talking about Parthia/Elam being scattered to the west? His ‘throne in Elam’ could be people that were saved after having been scattered and will indeed return as He says in the last verse in that chapter. Just a guess. Zech 10 *could* indicate that they are relocated to the mountains of Gilead or what is known as the hills of Bashan (Golan heights) now.
September 9th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
I agree with Joel’s conclusion, I disagree with some of his minor points.
But he is right, Turkey is Magog, I posted on this site, awhile ago, a link to many cities and towns in Turkey that had the word “gog” in it. A word, that I could not find outside of Turkey. So, that lends a credibility to Gog being Turkey.
Revelation opens up in Asia Minor, the seven churches are in Asia Minor, he then proceeds to talk about two empires. Rome will eventually split into two parts, the Eastern part will be in Turkey, which will be followed by the Ottoman Empire, also in Turkey.
John then mentions Gog and Magog in Rev. 20, taking the location of Revelation, it is safe to assume that Gog and Magog is Turkey.
One has to dismiss all of these locations as mere coincident, which one can not do, there is too much of it, to anything other than Turkey.
September 9th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
hmm thanks screaming eagle this could be Ill give it some thought .
Rasul
September 9th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
Hello Joel
I have read your book on the Islamic Antichrist and I also see the Antichrist coming from the ancient Assyrian/ Babylonian region first founded by Nimrod the first type of the Antichrist to come in the Bible. He was a Middle-eastern man and not a European one.Even though I was taught that the final Antichrist would come from Europe I have come to see from the Bible, a Middle-Eastern book and not a western book, that the roots of the antichrist has its source in Ancient Babylon. The problem has been that western theologans have tended to interpret the Bible with a western mindset. You may like to check my website in the prophecy section. www.blowthetrumpet.com.au Every blessing. Raoul
September 10th, 2009 at 4:34 am
It’s also TRUE that Syria was ONE of the MAIN PROVINCES of OTTOMAN EMPIRE outside ANATOLIA…
September 10th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Joel, do you think war on the installment plan is in the offing? What with Iraq
and Syria seeing steadily worsening relations, as posted at http://worldthreats.com and the uncertainty surrounding the Iranian nuclear program, and how Israel might do something about it, with the tacit backing of the Gulf States; getting from where we are to where we end up sees the most likely route being at least some warfare.
What I bring to this is the Eastern Orthodox perspective, and a book I recommend is, “A Second look at the second coming” by T. L. Frazier.
September 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Ezekiel 38 prophecy is DUAL in nature.
And i also would like to mention that bible does not speak a single word about “last 7 years”.
But i understand that you have to take this position for how could Israel live safely if there were no covenant?
But for you knowledge, Eze 38 also says that ALL 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL ARE IN ISRAEL AT THAT TIME AND THAT THEY ARE LIVING IN PEACE,
NOW WHERE ARE THEY LIVING?
IN RECONSTRUCTED CITIES!!!
SEE?
THESE THINGS PROVE CLEARLY THAT EZEKIEL 38 INVASION WILL HAPPEN ONLY AFTER SOME ARMIES ATTACK ISRAEL, BURN THEIR CITIES, ARE DEFEATED BY GOD AND ISRAEL HAS LIVED TO LATTER DAYS (1000 years) IN COMPLETE PEACE WITHOUT ANY “WALLS”!!!
THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL SATAN BE FREED TO GATHER GOG AND MAGOG TO LAST BATTLE THERE WILL BE.
BUT as i said, this prophecy is DUAL in nature, meaning that some of it actually speaks of the false messiah (anti=false, christ=messiah).
September 14th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
All 12 tribes of Israel are now in the land.
“Now when the seventh month came, and the sons of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered together as one man to Jerusalem” (Ezra 3:1).
“the sons of Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the rest of the exiles, celebrated the dedication of this house of God with joy… 12 male goats, corresponding to the number of the tribes of Israel,” [were sacrificed] (Ezra 6:16–17; cp. 8:35).
“the sons of Israel who returned from exile and all those who had separated themselves from the impurity of the nations of the land to join them, to seek the Lord God of Israel, ate the Passover” (Ezra 6:21)
Many from the northern kingdom made their way to Jerusalem after the exile and joined with Judah, Benjamin, and the Levites (Ezra 7:7, 13, 28; 8:25).
“while Ezra was praying and making confession, weeping and prostrating himself before the house of God, a very large assembly, men, women, and children, gathered to him from Israel; for the people wept bitterly.” Ezra 10:1
Edwin M. Yamauchi writes that “the use of the terms ‘Israelites’ rather than ‘Judeans’” was Ezra’s way to describe “a united Israel of those who returned.”
Albertus Pieters writes, “such expressions as ‘Israel,’ ‘The Whole House of Israel,’ ‘The House of Israel,’ are used to denote the entire body of the twelve tribes, as if they were again one nation. . . . The conclusion to be drawn from all the above considerations, is this, that the exilic prophets and later writers gradually ceased to make any distinction between Israel and Judah.”
J. B. Shearer writes, “The restored people were called Israel and Jews, interchangeably, by both Ezra and Nehemiah, who were the renewers, the leaders, the prophetis and the historians of the commonwealth. . . . When they make mention of ‘all Israel’ they must have included the twelve tribes, just as Moses and Joshua did when they spake of ‘all Israel.’. . . When we read Matt. 4:12–16 and Christ’s quotation from Is. (:1, 2 we feel sure that remnants of Zebulun and Naphtali rejoiced in the light of Christ’s visit and teaching. . . . Anna the prophetess [Luke 2:36], who blessed the babe in the temple belonged to the tribe of Asher. If the ten tribes were lost Paul knew nothing about it. In his defence before Agrippa he spoke of the promise made to the fathers, and said, ‘Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come’ [Acts 26:7].”
This truth is carried over into the New Testament that the Jews are described as “the men of Judea” (Acts 2:14), “men of Israel” (2:22; 13:16), “house of Israel” (2:36; 7:42), and “sons of Israel” (5:21; 7:23; 7:37; 9:15; 10:36), common phrases to describe a united nation (Rom. 9:27; 2 Cor. 3:7).
September 15th, 2009 at 8:08 am
Response to Screaming Eagle:
Screaming Eagle wrote:
“VL Hale wrote:
Just as God established the seat of His power on Mount Zion, Satan established his in the area of what was the Soviet Union referred to as Gog, meaning, ‘mountain. My question is ‘where’s the beef’? Show me any indication scripturally to support this please.
Re 2:12 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Re 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.”
Firstly, it is doubly hard for those of us who are not fluent in biblical Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek to ascertain the exact meaning of a text. Even the experts of today are not 100% in agreement on all word definitions relative to the usage of biblical times. Secondly, we are further hampered by translations where the language has either become dated or the language has been translated to be more ‘acceptable’ to the societal norms of today. So due diligence is required in order to glean our best understanding of the text.
Rasuljacob mentions a scripture wherein God states that He will set His throne in Elam and this is an excellent example to illustrate what I am referring to: “And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.” (Jer 49:38) Isn’t it interesting that the name, ‘Elam,’ means ‘eternity?’ Read that passage again and substitute the meaning of the word for the name: I will set my throne in eternity… The word translated as ‘throne’ in the Septuagint is the same Greek word that is used in Revelation regarding Satan’s ‘seat’ in Pergamos. It is transliterated, ‘thronos.’ The word means ‘chair of state’ and ‘kingly power.’ In Jeremiah, I understand the passage to mean that the power structure was going to change in Elam—not that God was literally going to set up His throne there—just that He was going establish His power there by destroying the ruling regime and its evil foundations. God went on to say that in the latter days He would again bring the Elamites into captivity. An example would be when a general decides to take a city, he destroys the enemy and the power and authority of his kingdom become the new government of that city. However, the capital city and government of his kingdom do not move to this newly conquered city—they stay where they are.
Scripture states that heaven is God’s Throne. (Psalm 11:4; Isa 66:1; Mat 5:34; Mat 23:22; Act 7:49; Rev 4:2; Rev 5:13; Rev 16:17) Also, God did say Jerusalem is where He chose to put His Name—not Elam. He stated this emphatically a number of times; here are a few of the most direct statements:
1 Kings 11:36 NIV – “I will give one tribe to his son so that David my servant may always have a lamp before me in Jerusalem, the city where I chose to put my Name.”
2 Kings 21:4 KJV – “He built altars in the temple of the Lord, of which the Lord had said, “In Jerusalem I will put my Name.”
2 Kings 21:7 KJV – “He took the carved Asherah pole he had made and put it in the temple, of which the Lord had said to David and to his son Solomon, “In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my Name forever.”
2 Chron 33:7 NIV – “He took the carved image he had made and put it in God’s temple, of which God had said to David and to his son Solomon, “In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my Name forever.”
God’s Throne is in heaven in the New Jerusalem, but Yeshua will reign over the earth during the Millennial Kingdom from Jerusalem, Israel (the natural). Ultimately, when the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven and rests on the recreated earth then will come the Eternal Kingdom (the spiritual). All things first happen in the natural and then in the spiritual. “45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.” (1 Cor 15:45-47NIV)
In Revelation 2:13 where the passage is translated as. ‘Satan,’ the transliterated word, ‘satanas,’ can either mean, ‘adversary,’ the name given to the prince of evil spirits, or ‘a Satan-like man.’ In 133BC, Pergamos became a Roman province of Asia when King Attalus III willed his kingdom to Rome. Pergamos became the chief town of the new Asian province. The first temple of the Caesar cult was built there and dedicated in 29BC and Pergamos thus became the provincial center of the Roman state religion which included emporer worship. So at the time that the Apostle John wrote the Revelation of Our Lord, Pergamos was a part of the Roman Empire and Christians who lived there were being persecuted for refusing to worship the emperor—the god-man. This is the spirit of AC—which means ‘instead of Christ.’
There is no conflict here. Even if we take this passage literally as written, there is no reason why Satan would necessarily have to locate his spiritual base at the same location as his military base. The important truth to remember is what was taught to us by Yeshua, “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.” (Matt 12:33 NIV) As the spiritual battle has spilled over into the natural world, it may well be that Satan’s spiritual seat is in Pergamos, but it is evident from the fruit of the tree that his physical military command center is Russia and its anti-Israel allies.
So I ask once again, Which is the country that has been stirring up trouble throughout the world in our time? Which country has the power and alliances to cause the kind of destruction described in the scriptures? Which country has been arming its allies to the teeth? When you add to this force the armies of the east, I simply cannot see Gog and Magog coming merely from Turkey. Since Turkey has been rebuffed a number of times by the EU in its quest to become a member, it is possible that Turkey may join this unholy alliance.
In summary, it is my humble opinion that the mention of the ancient tribal names for areas of Russian influence was God’s way of revealing the identity of a nation that did not exist as we know it at that time. In addition, the prophetic meanings of the names agree with the stated prophecy as revealed by God.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:11 am
Joel,
Not only are you right that no Russia invasion of Israel is predicted in the bible, but there is no mention of the modern political state of Israel at all in the bible. The only Israel referred to is the ancient state that was in a covenant relationship with God. When their covenant relationship ended in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed that ended the prophecies regarding Israel. The new covenant came into its own at that time and the old covenant passed away. The new covenant represents the correct way to have a relationship with God now through Christ–the Law is gone, old covenant Israel is gone, and with it went biblical references to Israel.
Israel is the only democracy in the region and our only real ally and we should support them, but we are fooling our self to try and see biblical references to the modern day political state of Israel.