Interview With Stephen Sizer
Stephen Sizer is the Anglican Vicar of Christ Church, Virginia Water, England, and author of several books including Christian Zionism: Roadmap to Armageddon? and Zion’s Christian Soldiers. I have not read either book, but if I can wittle down my present reading list, I actually would be interested to read one or both books. Some of my favorite books are actually those that did a good job of making fun of Premillenialists like myself. Paul Boyer’s, When Time Shall Be No More and Gershom Gorenberg’s The End of Days are two of my favorite books. In any case, in a recent article by Melanie Phillips, entitled Beware the new axis of evangelicals and Islamists Stephen featured prominently as one of the evangelical collaborators with the Islamists. After posting the article, Stephen dropped in and offered what he felt needed to be corrected in Phillip’s article. Subsequently, Stephen and I e-mailed back and forth a couple of times as he allowed me to conduct the following interview. While I have some very strong disagreements with Stephen, (I am a Christian Zionist) I did want to give him the benefit of the doubt and offer him the chance to share where he is coming from. The conversation could have continued I’m sure for quite some time, but I wanted to respect his busy job as a Pastor and beyond that, I promised him the last word:
Joel Richardson: Many scholars will point to the quadrilateral combination of (1) reliance on the Bible, (2) Church tradition, (3) logic, reason, and (4) personal experience as the four primary basis’ for one’s theological method. In recent years, I have seen an increasing reliance on what might be viewed as a fifth leg, this being: (5) one’s political worldview as a primary basis for determining one’s theology. Would you say this is an accurate observation?
Steven Sizer: My tradition (the Church of England plus my conservative evangelical roots – concerted through Campus Crusade for Christ) is based on Sola Scripture – so (1) alone as the infallible word of God. Tradition, reason and experience are all important but secondary. Apart from radical liberal theologians I don’t know anyone mainstream who would shape their theology around a political system. The CofE Article 20 states “The church has authority to decree forms of worship and ceremonies and to decide in controversies concerning the faith. However, it is not lawful for the church to order anything contrary to God’s written Word. Nor may it expound one passage of Scripture so that it contradicts another passage. So, although the church is a witness and guardian to holy Scripture, it must not decree anything contrary to Scripture, nor is it to enforce belief in anything additional to Scripture as essential to salvation.”
Joel: In a room full of close friends, how would you best define your own political leanings?
Steven: I had a working-class background and so was raised on the principles of the Labour Party although my father was not a union man. I now live in a middle-class community and am more in sympathy with a Liberal-Democrat or Conservative stance. My politics is entirely issue based. I have only ever voted for one of the three main parties.
Joel: Would you say that these political leanings are a significant factor in your theology and most specifically in your eschatology?
Stephen: I have a deep concern for the poor and marginalised, the persecuted and the downtrodden (Luke 6:20-26; “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” (James 1:27)
Joel: Amen. We are both in agreement that the plight of the orphan and the widow is premiere on God’s heart. Do you also recognize that numerous Old Testament passages place the Jewish people at the time of Christ’s return, among those who are also hated, persecuted and marginalized and whom Christ will fight for when He comes?
Stephen: I see the New Testament classifying people in different ways (Jews, Gentiles, Slave, Greek, etc). When Christ comes the NT teaches us there will be two classes of people – those who are ready and those who are not – one will be taken and one left behind. I don’t find anywhere in the NT the belief that Jesus will fight for anyone when he comes, least of all those who have disowned him.
Joel: What system of eschatology do you adhere to?
Stephen: I can see merits in all four positions: preterism, amillennialism, post-millennialism and historic premillennialism. I see dispensationalism as a 19th century eccentric aberration. I want to be on the welcoming committee not the organising committee. If I had to choose I’d go with the simplest – a cross between a partial preterist – since many of the prophecies did come true 33-70AD - and an amillennialist position. If there is going to be the full works as outlined in premillennialism then we will soon find out. What is going to happen in the future besides the imminent literal physical return of Christ and the day of judgment is in God’s hands and doesn’t affect our gospel mandate – to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles (Romans 1: 14-17)
Joel: Do you believe that the return of Christ is yet still future event that the Church should look for?
Stephen: Yes. We should long for his appearing (2 Timothy 4:8). “Amen, Come, Lord Jesus (Revelation 22:20)
Joel: Below are a small handful of passages that refer to the return of Christ. How do you understand these passages:
And now, behold… I will advise you what this people (the Hebrews) will do to your people (Midianites) in the days to come (literally “the End-Times”)… I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth. Edom will be conquered; Seir, his enemy, will be conquered, but Israel will grow strong. - Numbers 24:14,17-19
He will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. Yahweh has spoken.… The hand of Yahweh will rest on this mountain (Zion); but Moab will be trampled under him as straw is trampled down in the manure. - Isaiah 25:8-10
Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? “It is I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save.” Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress? “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come. - Isaiah 63:1-4
My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed. The sword of Yahweh is bathed in blood, it is covered with fat—the blood of lambs and goats, fat from the kidneys of rams. For Yahweh has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a great slaughter in Edom… Their land will be drenched with blood, and the dust will be soaked with fat. For Yahweh has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s legal cause. Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! (Isaiah 34:3-9)
I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land… Now what have you against me, O Tyre and Sidon and all you regions of Philistia? Are you repaying me for something I have done? If you are paying me back, I will swiftly and speedily return on your own heads what you have done. - Joel 3;2, 4
Stephen: I maintain that we must interpret them (and the theological concepts they contain) in the light of the way the NT teaches us to understand ‘inheritance’ ‘redemption’ and ‘Israel’
Joel: What role do these various Old Testament prophecies regarding Jesus’ ultimate judgment against the surrounding nations /neighbors of Israel (goy cabiyb) and subsequent vindication of Israel have on your view of the Middle East today?
Stephen: What does the New Testament say about how we should view these kinds of prophecies? (Matthew 8:11-12; Luke 3:7-9; John 8:39; Matthew 21:33-41). The prophecies you quote do not trump those I have quoted. Just the reverse. The NT reaches that faith in Jesus Christ is the basis for membership of the people of God. John 15 should be enough to convince anyone.
Joel: So do I understand you correctly to be saying that certain Biblical passages actually “trump” others? Would you say then that you actually hold to a form of Christian abrogation?
Stephen: How do you understand Hebrews 8:13? “By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.”
This is a form of biblical abrogation is it not?
Or how about “The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.” (Hebrews 10:1)
Joel: How do you deal with such passages? Do you perceive the face-value / literal interpretation of these passages to be dangerous to the world today?
Stephen: The assumptions behind the question seems to be what Jesus had in mind when he said, “You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you possess eternal life (and dare I say it “land”…). These are the very Scriptures that testify about me.” (John 5:39).
And also in this passage “And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.” (Luke 24:27)
Any theology that is not Christ-centric is inherently defective.
Joel: I fully agree that the overwhelming prophetic emphasis of Scripture is Jesus and His Kingdom. The passages that I cited describe Jesus returning and executing judgment against various Muslim nations specifically for their mistreatment of the Jewish people and the nation of Israel. First the Lord uses the surrounding nations (Goy Cabiyb) to execute His discipline on Israel, but then He returns in essence to break that rod over His knee. Apart from disregarding these passages altogether, how can you reconcile them with your position regarding Israel? The passages are numerous, clear and their context is clearly the return of Christ. Could you please walk through and interact with these passages a bit more than you have thus far? Particularly the portions that I highlighted in red. In Revelation 19 where Christ is portrayed as donning a robe soaked with blood, with Isaiah 63 in mind, as cited above, whose blood will His robe be soaked with and what are the Biblically expressed reasons for such violence on His part?
Stephen: Jesus is coming to judge the living and the dead. I don’t underestimate that it will be a horrifying event. I don’t, however, limit his judgement to those of the Islamic faith who have rejected Jesus. The judgement applies to British, American and Jewish people also (John 15 for example)
Joel: I have heard you state in what I felt were rather cynical terms the notion that as a result of their eschatology, many premillenialists actually long for or look forward to the suffering and death of both Jews and Muslims. Using a very similar analogy, imagine if you would that my wife’s due date was in two months. Knowing that on that day, my wife will experience perhaps some of the worst pain that she has ever experienced, would you consider it a rather strange accusation to say that I am longing for my wife to suffer because I am looking forward to the day?
Stephen: I look forward to the return of Jesus, knowing it will also be a terrible day for those that have rejected him. Hagee and friends seem to be goading us headlong into an apocalyptic battle. See here. http://stephensizer.blogspot.com/2008/11/weird-and-wacky-theology-3-armageddon.html and here about America in the Bible http://stephensizer.blogspot.com/2008/11/weird-and-wacky-theology-4-america-in.html I do not recognise this view from Scripture.
Joel: I am in full agreement with you that the United States is not mentioned in Scripture. The Bible is thoroughly Jerusalem, Israel and Middle Eastern-centric from beginning to end. But do you really think that such accusations and slights toward premillenialists are actually fair or conducive to Christian unity?
Stephen: Don’t get me wrong, I have a high regard for historic premillennialism. I am careful to cite what premillennial dispensationalists actually say and avoid too much interpretation. Usually what they say is sufficient. They do not need any help.
At the July 19th, 2006 Washington DC inaugural event for Christians United for Israel, after recorded greeting from George W. Bush, and in the presence of four US Senators as well as the Israeli ambassador to the US, John stated :”The United States must join Israel in a preemptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ.”
Well that’s everything isn’t it? The whole caboodle as we say in O’l Blighty. Now I don’t want to see anyone ‘wiped off the face of the earth’ least of all my Jewish friends, but bombing Iran back to the stone age won’t win us any friends in the Middle East, John. Trust me, I’ve asked them.
Joel: As a Historic Premillenialist, I am again in complete agreement with you that these statements are neither helpful nor representative of genuine Christian character or thought. However, I would also express caution that these extremist statements not be presented as normative, even among Dispensationalists. Extremist comments and attitudes from either side of the isle should be disregarded, I think you will agree. But would you be willing to concede that today in the Church there is also an equally extremist left wing anti-Zionist camp emerging that it also neither helpful nor expressive of true Christian character or Biblical thought?
Stephen: Yes I agree with you.
And not just on this either.
Joel: Below is the famous Sahih Hadith of the Ghurkad Tree. It is considered reliable and authoritative by all four Islamic schools of jurisprudence:
‘The Hour [of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews and the rock and the tree will say: O Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’
What role do you feel that such anti-Semitic foundations of Islam play in the current Middle East conflict between Israel and the Islamic World?
Stephen: Probably a lot. It is our responsibility to introduce them to the Prince of Peace through a ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5) and not try and outbid them, for example like Anne Coulter,
“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren’t punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That’s war. And this is war.”
Joel: Once again, obviously I agree with you. Comments like this are ultimately carnal, unbalanced and unwise. But again, my concern is that in reacting to such attitudes, many are over-reacting / over-compensating and altogether losing a fair, balanced and loving perspective toward the Jewish people that is more in accordance with the left-leaning hyper-critical attitude toward Israel spirit of the age rather than according to the Spirit of God. My concern is that some continue to demand that the Jewish people concede yet again to a neighboring territory where a large enough percentage of the population desires to kill every Jewish man, women and child because of the Nazi-like indoctrination of violent Islamic anti-Semitism (as well as Christian replacement theology) poured into the minds of the general population virtually from birth. My concern is that in taking such a radically anti-Zionist attitude, this camp is only encouraging and reinforcing an ancient hatred that needs little encouragement. My concern is that in emboldening the enemies of the Jewish people, many from this camp are ultimately bringing about the fulfillment of the Biblical prophecies that speak of the surrounding nations joining together to invade Israel and kill a majority of the inhabitants there – namely the Battle of Armageddon.
March 18th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
You may want to have a look at this
http://seismicshock.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/yes-stephen-sizer-didforwards-emails-written-by-9-11-conspiracy-theorists-and-holocaust-deniers/
and also these posts on the dubious sources, blindness to Israeli pain, and shoddy scholarship in “Zion’s Christian Soldiers”
http://largebluefootballs.blogspot.com/2008/04/overstepping-mark.html
http://largebluefootballs.blogspot.com/2008/10/why-does-stephen-sizer-misrepresent.html
March 18th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
That is pretty good, and at least of which Pastor Sizer was Gentleman enough to contribute to a conversation with you, as I personally learned alot, where, some may feel that a good “cross fire” may be contrary to what they are trying to get across, so, screw what others may have to contribute, even if facts, history and obvious track records are involved, Thanks Joel and Thanks Pastor Sizer…your a big help to me…..Dave
March 18th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Thanks to both Joel and Stephen for a respectful, Christ-like conversation.
Both of you made valid points…Joel I have “A Case for Historic Premillenialism” ordered
Stephen I’ve ordered your “Zion’s Christian Soldiers”. I’m looking forward
to both books!
Blessings
March 18th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Thank you.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Even having diverse viewpoints as both Joel and Stephen have, to conduct a meaningful discussion between both of them is edifying to your audience. When willing parties can listen to each other during dialog advances understanding and goodwill…do you think nations can learn from this? I know I have and maybe it starts with me.
March 18th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
I love that book The End of Days its one of my top ten books of all time.
ras
March 18th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
I see attempts by the enemy on a multitude of fronts to marginalize the importance of God’s promises to the Jewish people, specifically promises regarding the land.
From everything that is being done to force Israel to give up land literally, to seemingly unconnected (but absolutely connected if you are discerning) events such as the new CIA director failing to mention anything about terrorism in statements about plans to protect America The word ‘terrorism’ is apparently fear mongering. We now use the word ‘man-caused disasters’. How Orwellian…in fact so much so that I find it difficult not to laugh out loud at the obviousness of it all.
There are many out there wrongfully discounting the Lord’s promises when they push the Jews into the box of the damned and assume a figurative translation of the Lord’s words regarding the land. The entire OT is a map of where not to be in the near future (prophecies for Damascus, Gaza, Ashkelon (sp?) and many more).
I wonder how these same people would interpret the OT prophecies of Jesus’ first arrival if we were all to travel back in time about 2020 years ago. Would they assume figurative interpretations of the virgin birth, God in the flesh, and the once and for all payment for the sin of mankind on the cross?
For me it is simple. I may not know *how* the Lord will do what he has promised, but I know he will do it literally just as he did with his Savior’s first run.
I think the (implied) interpretation of Hebrews 8:13 from Stephen tries to dump the Lord’s promises regarding the Jews and the land out of the literal into the figurative. I certainly do not think he is an agent of Satan, hehe, not at all, but I do think the enemy’s plans to build consensus against Israel and her land are broad and deep, bold and subtle.
Don’t get between the Lord and his promises. In the Marines we used to call that ‘the beaten zone’. The Lord calls it the wine press.
March 18th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
“Some of my favorite books are actually those that did a good job of making fun of Premillenialists like myself.”
Dear Joel, my dear brother in Christ Jesus - Premillenialists (an arena of biblical eschatology I’m still struggling with/in/through) are nevertheless fellow partakers of the grace granted through the Lord. We are one body. For me, one of the off-putting features of the posttribulational school has been the historic ad hominem affronts to other schools of thought. The elbow should not “make fun of” any other anatomical region. Can’t we all just get along and place our eyes on the prize?
I highly value your insights, wisdom and solid biblical insights. Thanks again for your ministry. I just ask your forbearance for those of us who are still struggling with this paradigm shift.
Love - Jonathan
March 19th, 2009 at 1:35 am
Water,
If your expectations and GOD’S plans for the Jews are one and the same,
then no human will be able to stop HIS plan.
GOD will get HIS way…HE always does! He does not need us to make it
happen, He can pull it off without us.
As for me, my dreams and desires are focused on the Jewish Messiah.
My hope is in his return and my salvation…the regeneration of this creation and ultimately the new heavens and earth, without tears or pain.
My family being once again reunited, living in the warmth and security of HIS GLORY…never having to fear death,
this is what I get excited about…I want to see my mother again…my little
brothers who died as children. (the baby I lost in miscarriage)
I can’t wait to ask the big questions!…the kind only a GOD can answer!
I want to be where ever Jesus is…If that’s a piece of real estate in the
middle east, great! But…the “land” is not what I dwell on, it is the KING!
Where ever He chooses to place His bride, I’ll be cool with it!
As for this side of the Resurrection, the future has already been written.
We don’t have to agree or even get it right..(concerning our expectations) because our hope is in Jesus, and It will all go as planned!
Blessings
March 19th, 2009 at 6:02 am
JWebb,
Just curiously, did you confuse premillenialism with pre-tribulationalism? Premill just referring to those who believe that Jesus is coming back to reign on the earth.
I consider pre-tribbers my brothers and sisters 150%. I have no problem with anyone who believes this. My only encouragement is be prepared for being wrong.
My occasional criticisms come out not so much against the position of pre-tribulationalsim, but against the pre-trib camps approach to other thoughts. As many post-tribbers can attest, being one for the past few decades has been difficult. So my problem is not at all with pre-tribbers, but with the level that this doctrine has been elevated as measure of orthodoxy for some. To me, that is harmful.
So while I am confident in my post-trib position, I fully understand someone who is pre-trib. Again, just hope for the best, but always be prepared for the worst.
Love and blessings, Joel
March 19th, 2009 at 6:08 am
Water,
Agreed. The idea that things have changed after Jesus does not mean that prophecies have disappeared. In those prophecies, we see a glimpse of His passions and His heart when He returns. He still calls them His people and He is angry on their behalf. Mind you, this is after He has disciplined them Himself. Notice also that that is His job. I just want to align myself with His expressed heart and passions.
March 19th, 2009 at 9:43 am
It’s curious to note that the pre and post-tribber camps are reversed on either side of the Pond. Assuming that most bloggers here are American, it would seem that the majority hold the pre-trib view in the States, whilst as an Englishman I think it’s safe to say that the majority hold the post-trib view in the UK (if not amillenialism). In England if you are pre-trib you can get ridiculed a little and labelled as “like those Americans”. I wonder how much our pre-trib and post-trib views are shaped by our respective nations?
March 19th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Stuart, I am soooo glad you are here…:)
We need international flavor to keep ourselves from being too myopic and you bring a breath of fresh aire to conversation! Do you know which historic figure most shaped your “general” eschatological views on the rapture? I think for American church it was Charles Darby who developed the “dispensational” view of eschatology and boy, do I wish it were true! I grew up hearing this all my life, until I learned otherwise…any thoughts?
March 19th, 2009 at 10:56 am
After some of Stephen’s responses to Joels references to Prophetic Old Testament passages on the Lords return I think Stephen needs to realize that when you open your History book of the universe(Bible) all the letters should be in bold red ink!
March 19th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Stuart,
I think you’re right, that our views are largely shaped by our national origin. Perhaps America believes we will be saved from tribulation because we haven’t really experienced tribulation here for the most part. But the rest of the world is not so lucky.
I can’t speak for the mind-set in England, as you can, but in my experience the East as a whole is not pre-trib. When I was in Cairo attending an orthodox service in Arabic, the Egyptian pastor that served as our interpreter engaged me in a discussion about the rapture. He couldn’t understand how America could see a pre-trib event based on the scriptures. His main thrust was that the church has always experienced tribulation, and has always grown during times of persecution, so why would the last days be any different. He called pre-trib “a Western doctrine” that the rest of the world had no luxury in believing.
Of course, since I was not pre-trib either, he was preaching to the choir. But the point was well made. There seems to be a rather large gulf between these Eastern and Western mind-sets. But I’m sure Joel could speak to this with a much broader personal experience than I.
March 19th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Refreshing.
March 20th, 2009 at 6:45 am
Hi Joel,
I am curious how you see these passages. This seemed to be the most interesting and strongest part of his argument:
Stephen: How do you understand Hebrews 8:13? “By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.”
This is a form of biblical abrogation is it not?
Or how about “The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.” (Hebrews 10:1)
Dan
March 21st, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Hi Dan,
I didn’t respond to Sizer on this. My response would have been that there is a distinction between fulfillment and abrogation. My position allows me to fully embrace the passages that Stephen cited. But abrogation is something different altogether. I embrace the concepts and passages that Sizer cited, while he could literally reject or cut out the passages that I cited from his Bible altogether. To me abrogation is unbiblical. Fulfillment is not. I see zero Scriptural basis to simply ignore or reinterpret the passages that I cited as Sizer chooses to do. Ultimately folks like Sizer have to overcome the Bible to hold to their anti-Zionist position. That is my opinion.
Bless You Dan,
Joel
March 22nd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Dan,
As a follow up, after thinking through this a tad more, I might correct myself slightly. To a degree the New Covenant has abrogated the Old Mosaic Covenant, but it has done so in the way of fulfillment. But if one wished to call it abrogation, I actually wouldn’t have a real problem with that. However, we are given some very clear Scriptures as Stephen has quoted to allow us to in essence abrogate the Laws of the Mosaic Covenant. However, there are no passages that give us any right to disregard the prophecies that I cited. Nor is there any basis for Christians to disregard the notion that God will bless those that Bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel. The New Covenant does not do away with the Abrahamic Covenant. Those things remain forever. So if Stephen doesn’t feel as though he is cursing Israel by calling for criminal trials for Israel’s leaders etc., etc., etc., I would say that he should acknowledge that the surrounding Muslim nations should certainly expect this eventual fate if they do not repent.
As an aside, Stephen did place this interview on his blog, but he cut off my final statement and did not include it. I found that to be rather fairly dishonorable.
Looking forward to coming out!
March 22nd, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Joel,
To me the question is “who is Israel?”
If this is answered correctly then all the above comes together beautifully.
Many want to bring up “replacement theology” when the Church is called
Israel, but the scriptures are plentiful that say just that.
You don’t have to twist scripture to find this truth.
As for the specific scriptures that you mentioned to Stephen, I thought
most were very powerful. It is still something that I struggle with…I want
to know and understand what our Creator is planning for our near future.
I don’t want to offend HIM by siding against HIM so I will stay open, but
in my mind there is are plenty of questions to keep me busy for a long
time!
What ever GOD chooses to do, I am comfortable with the truth that eternal life is not for those who reject Jesus as Lord. He is the only Way.
My prayer for the Jew is that their eyes would be open…what good is
the “land” without the owner of the Land? I know you must have the
same prayer as well as all who post here.
So, are we any more responsible for defending the unbelieving Jew than
we are the believing Palestinian? (With regards to the “Land”)
The only way to answer this question is to answer “who is Israel?”
BTW, Joel if you feel threatened then don’t “come out”…we would all
rather your children have a father as to know your real name!
Blessings
March 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
I am a former Dispensationalist and now a historic premillennialist for 38 years. Hal Lindsey and I come from the same church. I know Stephen Sizer and agree with him in his opposition to Christian Zionism. I have a chapter by this title in my book, Palestine Is Coming: The Revival of Ancient Philistia. But I also agree with Joel about the several prophecies he quotes in this interview. They indicate that Jesus will return to prevent the annihilation of the Jewish people and the State Israel in a great military battle centered at Jerusalem. This is what my new book, Warrior from Heaven, is about. It’s a dramatic narrative about Christ’s return and all things predicted thereafter in the Bible.
March 25th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Kermit,
Please keep us posted about your book. Sounds great.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Stuart,
If you’re still following this topic, Let this American pick your English brain for a moment.
I was having a recent discussion with a fellow American who has a few European friends, and he said he was not at all surprised about the cooling relationship between the U.S. and Europe, based solely on the fact that many American evangelicals continue to preach that the antichrist will come from the E.U. He feels our relationships are breaking down because we are always vilifying them, and they are beginning to resent it.
Is this attitude actually prevalent in the U.K.?
April 1st, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Wondering if anyone has read “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” which can be found on the “Powered by Christ Ministries” site in a colorful format which, in addition to text, includes photos of pretrib leaders from Darby on down to Jeffrey. Don’t overlook this one! Joe