Rebirth of the Ottoman Empire - A Turkish Commonwealth?
Rebirth of the Ottoman Empire - A Turkish Commonwealth?
The suggestion to form a Turkish commonwealth among Turkic-speaking countries voiced at the recent gathering of leaders of Turkic states in Turkey’s seaside resort city of Antalya appears to reflect Ankara’s desire to strengthen its economic and political positions in Eurasia. Moscow should not treat Turkey’s growing geopolitical ambitions lightly, some Russian analysts say.
On September 18-20, the 10th Turkic States and Communities’ Friendship and Cooperation Congress took place at the posh hotel complex on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast. Organized by the Turkish Cooperation and Development Agency (TIKA), the Turkic Convention brought together top policymakers from Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and the unrecognized Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, as well as delegates representing the Turkic territories of Russia, Ukraine and Moldova — Chuvashia, Khakassia, Altai region, North Caucasus, Crimea, and Gagauzia.
“Turkic summits” were the brainchild of the late visionary Turkish leader Turgut Ozal. Ozal, prime minister and then president of Turkey from 1983 until his death in 1993, entertained a sweeping project that included a vibrant Turkic Common Market and a powerful Turkic Trade and Development Bank. A “Turkish model,” based on Turkey’s imperfect but seemingly workable market economy and somewhat restrictive parliamentary democracy, was offered to the post-Soviet states as a roadmap for their transition.
However, over the last decade, Ankara failed to play a leadership role in the post-Soviet space, and its activism in Eurasia proved to be rather fragile. Turkic summits have become the object of sharp criticism within Turkey’s policymaking and analytic community for their failure to produce any concrete results: the forums were seen as venues where nationalist-minded politicians indulged in their extravagant rhetoric.
It appears that the government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is seeking to reverse this trend. According to TIKA sources, around 100 officials from Turkish state agencies participated in the convention this year, seemingly demonstrating the importance attached to the meeting by Ankara.
At a time when Turkey’s relations with its traditional Western partners — the United States and the European Union — have soured over the war in Iraq and the growing skepticism about Ankara’s European bid, the country’s leadership seems ready to reinvigorate the “Eurasian vector” of its foreign policy.
Invoking the former glory of the Ottoman Empire that ruled across the vast lands of the Balkans, Black Sea area, and the Caucasus as well as the ethnic ties with Central Asian Turks, Turkish leaders suggested their country is destined to play a leading role in Eurasian politics. “Being the children of a historical state, we have to say our word too,” Erdogan asserted.
The 2006 Turkic summit has indeed set quite an ambitious agenda. To further develop commercial activities among Turkic states, participants decided to encourage foreign investment and to provide additional incentives to investors from Turkic states. Common energy projects should be developed and additional backing given to pipeline projects passing through Turkey. A common alphabet should be worked out to improve communication among Turkic peoples. Studies in Turkic culture should be encouraged. The summ it’s participants agreed that there is a need to compile a common heritage list of the Turkic world; they also deemed it advisable “to rewrite our common history and teach it at schools.”
To crown these integration efforts, the world’s Turks will have to establish a Turkic Commonwealth “like English- and French-speaking countries do,” Erdogan suggested. “This way we can encourage our cooperation and become more influential in the world.”
The summit’s Turkish hosts appeared keen not to arouse Russia’s suspicions regarding Ankara’s apparent readiness to infringe upon what Moscow considers to be its sphere of influence. The past several years saw a remarkable Russo-Turkish rapprochement based on the two countries’ close energy ties and their mutual disillusionment with the West. At the same time, the Kremlin has recently redoubled its efforts to restore Russia’s strategic position in the Central Asian region.
So far, there has been no Russian official reaction to the ambitious agenda advanced at the Turkic Convention. In fact, there was no coverage of the event in the mainstream Russian media. But some Russian analysts believe that such an attitude is far too shortsighted, as it ignores a strategically important development. “Is the regaining of[geopolitical weight by Russia’s historical rival, including its attempts to collect piece by piece on the vast expanses of Eurasia some morsels of the collapsed Ottoman empire, a topic that is completely uninteresting to Russian readers?” asks one commentator incredulously.
A number of Russian strategists warn that although Ankara is cultivating trade ties with Moscow, the Turkish policy elite is keen to turn its country into Eurasia’s major energy hub — a development that will run contrary to Russia’s strategic interests, as it will further undermine the Russian monopoly on the transit of hydrocarbons from the energy-rich Caspian and Central Asian regions.
Speaking at the Turkic summit, Azerbaijan’s President Ilham Aliyev specifically highlighted the geo-strategic significance of the energy and transportation projects pursued by the “brotherly Turkic nations;
“The moment we finalize all these projects, the total look of the area will be radically changed,” Aliyev said.
September 28th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Hi Joel,
A friend referred me here to your studies. We have a common interest in Turkey. My research has lead me to keep a close eye on Turkey. I read the news on the Turk Summit as well. My first thoughts were in regards to the 10 nations that align with the AC. Could this be the intitial steps of a coalition forming?
Turkey seems to be trying to be friends with everyone. They have economic and military alliances with about everyone it seems. Turkey has been trying to gain mediator status for the middle east peace treaty. They are Israel’s only muslim ally. They are friends with the Arabs and the west alike. Commonly known as the bridge between east and west, Muslim and Christian.
There are many biblical reasons I look toward Turkey. If one uses the kingdom of Alexander the great as the 3rd kingdom Daniel spoke of, then Daniel 11 specifies that it is out of the northern portion of the old Greek empire that the AC rises from. This was the Selucuid dynasty or Asia Minor. Basically the heart of the middle east as we know it today. Turkey lies due north of Israel.
Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Dan 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
In the latter time of the 4 divisions of the Greek empire a king of fierce countenance stands up (AC). Daniel 11 then specifies the northern division as the AC’s kingdom. The last king described in Dan 11 begins at Dan 11:21. The AoD is described in Dan 11:31, which is within the description of the last king. This last king is the king of the north or the AC because he and his armies place the AoD.
Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Dan 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
Dan 11:24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers’ fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
Dan 11:25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
Dan 11:26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
Dan 11:27 And both these kings’ hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.
Dan 11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
Dan 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
Dan 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
He meets his end at Dan 11:45 and then Dan 12 describes the resurrection. This places the king of Dan 11:21 near the end of the last 7 years just prior to the resurrection. This matches what Rev 19 teaches us concerning the demise of the AC. Then just after his destruction we see the resurrection in Rev 20 also.
This basically locates the AC within the middle east somewhere. Rev 2 helps me pinpoint Turkey as the one to watch.
Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Pergamos is today known as Bergama, Turkey. This is where the Babylonian priests fled the Romans to re-establish their religion. At least when John wrote this it was Satan’s headquarters apparently. There is also a connection in Rev 17. The woman is said to be a city that sits on 7 mountains. Many take mountains as hills here to assign the city as Rome.
There is another city on 7 hills. This city was actually founded on 7 hills. It was known as Constantinople, named after Constantine. Today it is known as Istanbul, Turkey. Research Istanbul a bit. The city has quite the history and is indeed a magnificant city. The Ottoman empire ruled from there for centuries. It is abound with palaces and treasures. Istanbul has been a major trade center since its founding.
Anyway great to be referred here as you can see I take a lot of interest in the Turkish aspect of Islam.
Peace,
Seeker
September 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
Seeker,
I’ve read some from your thread on another prophecy forum. Its been a while, but I remeber your pen name and appreciated your ability to stay focused on the issue despite the various arguments being leveled against your points- most simply Revived Roman Empire cliche’s unsupported by Scripture. You are a clear thinker. I wish I had more time to chat, but presently I’m ridiculously busy. Send me your e-mail adress and in the future I’d like to talk to you in a bit more detail as I’m writing a book with Walid Shoebat that will certainly have a whole chapter on Turkey.
Bless you,
Joel
September 29th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
Thanks Joel maybe we will find time to discuss some of that over time. I just finished listening to your radio interview so have a better idea of what you are saying here. I have been reading bits and pieces concerning the Caliphate and 12th Iman here and there. Thank you for that radio interview it really gave me a great overview of what you are seeing. I think you are right on track.
The current AKP goverment is definitely trying to emerge as an Islamic leader in the region. I have read many articles on the topic. Turkish elections are in November I believe. Everything I read on it seems to indicate the AKP will maintain leadership.
There is speculation that Mr. Erdogan will move to the presidency and his foriegn minister Mr. Gul to the Prime Minister position. This to me would seem to give the Islamic gov’t even more power in Turkey. Mr. Gul originally was PM because of some legal technicalities that kept Mr. Erdogan from occupying the position.
The AKP gov’t quickly changed the law and then Mr. Erdogan moved into the PM office. Just a little political background for the upcoming election. It will be interesting to watch the military response to the elections. They have intervened before and are giving warnings even now.
Peace,
Seeker
September 29th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Thanks Seeker. If you have any “heads-ups”, then please pass them along. My ability to observe the news is limited. By the way, my book is available for free as “Will Islam Be Our Future” on Answering-Islam.org Chapter 11 (or ten)explains why I came to the Turkish empahsis of the last-days. Bless Ya, Joel
September 29th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
Ok now the connection is returning. I stumbled on Chapter 10 of your book about 6 months ago via a google search. You were the first one I found that pretty well agreed with what I was finding.
I agree with your assessment of Eze 38-39. I would say I am in complete agreement with chapter 10 of your book. I have skipped around in other chapters but need to sit down and read the whole thing.
You make some great points in chapter 10. I have used several of them in my discussions on the subject. Eze 38:17 is especially significant as you point out.
Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
This lead me to search what the prophets prior to Ezekiel had to say about a coalition of armies attacking Israel and God defeating those invaders in the land of Israel. The prophets all spoke the same story. This must be talking about Gog since God says His prophets spoke of Gog. Makes a very solid case for Gog being the AC. Thank you for pointing that out.
I am sure my friend told me of the connection between you and chapter 10 it had just slipped my mind. Your online book has had a significant impact in discussion forums around the net. I have seen it referenced several places I visit. I’ll keep my “news” eye out for articles related to the Caliphate and your studies. It is a pleasure to meet you as your book helped me stay the course when the going was tough. Just the confirmation I needed at the time when I was beginning to second guess my research.
Thanks,
Seeker
September 30th, 2006 at 7:24 am
Right. That verse of course if key. As is the nature of Gog in Revelation. There he is an Anitchirst figure, and yet somehow he is expected to be something less in Ezekiel. The error that so many make is to start with one or a few verses and then built an entire eschatological worldview around that. Unfortunately so may are absolutley caught up on the idea that the AC will be Roman. The truth is that he will - in that he will come from within the boundaries of the Roman Empire. However, he will not come from any Revived Roman Empire as such. Most confuse categories here and then go even further and make the equation of Roman = European. And of course once that is established as an unassailable FACT, then the need to eliminate Ezekiel 38 from the equation comes next. As does the need to eliminate the fact that the AC also comes from the Seleucid portion of the Helenistic Greek Empire as per the vision of the Ram and the shaggy Goat in Daniel. Despite the fact Ezekiel 38 is quite obviously referring to the AC, they try to recategorize Gog as a smaller player in the end-times. The biggest excuse is that it appears as though he is immediately destroyed in the passage. However, one cannot view any prophetic passage in such a hyper-literal fashion. That is precisely what the Jews of the 1st Century did and which we so casually point the finger at them for. They looked at for instance Michah 5 and read about the Messiah who would come and defeat the Assyrian who invaded the land. Sounds to me like the Messiah was indeed a military messiah. But there is at least a two thousand year gap in there that isn’t even detectable. So why are the Revived Roman Empire supporters so comforatable with that gap in Micah 5 and a hundred other places and yet refuse to see a couple year gap in the Ezekiel passage before the AC is destroyed on the mountains of Israel?
Okay, now that I’ve pointed out the blind spots in others, I wonder what mine are, and how I will react when someone points them out?
Blessings Seeker,
Joel
October 1st, 2006 at 3:33 am
Hi Joel,
“Okay, now that I’ve pointed out the blind spots in others, I wonder what mine are, and how I will react when someone points them out?”
I just read your book from beginning to end and honestly you covered every aspect I had considered before plus many more. I am usually pretty good at finding errors in logic or scripture. The scriptures that you reference and your application of the scriptures are very similar to my views and understanding. Have to say I agree with your conclusions.
I sort of lean toward a new world religion though. One consisting of the common elements contained in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic traditions. I guess mainly because that is what I am seeing in the world currently. A move toward celebrating the common points rather than fighting over the differences. A comprimise by all sides for the sake of world peace and unity…
If we to believe that the kingdoms prior to the 4th are given by Daniel to help us understand the 4th then we should be able to look at the traits and characteristics of those leaders. Nebuch and Alexander both started out with noble goals. As they progressed in their conquering and empire building they became prideful and arrogant to the point of demanding worship of themselves.
I just sense that we don’t exactly see the final form of Satan’s last empire religion yet. We also have the verse in Daniel about not worshipping the god of his fathers. I still have no doubt that Islam is leading toward the final makeup however it ends up.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
He seems to turn his worship toward his armies or military might. Islam technically worships a god his fathers knew. His confidence seems to end up with his military. This is actually quite similar to Nebuch and Alexander. Islam is definitely setting the stage though. Ultimately his pride and arrogance gets the best of him.
Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Isa 10:6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.
Isa 10:7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few.
Isa 10:8 For he saith, Are not my princes altogether kings?
Isa 10:9 Is not Calno as Carchemish? is not Hamath as Arpad? is not Samaria as Damascus?
Isa 10:10 As my hand hath found the kingdoms of the idols, and whose graven images did excel them of Jerusalem and of Samaria;
Isa 10:11 Shall I not, as I have done unto Samaria and her idols, so do to Jerusalem and her idols?
Isa 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
Isa 10:13 For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom; for I am prudent: and I have removed the bounds of the people, and have robbed their treasures, and I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man:
Isa 10:14 And my hand hath found as a nest the riches of the people: and as one gathereth eggs that are left, have I gathered all the earth; and there was none that moved the wing, or opened the mouth, or peeped.
Isa 10:15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood.
Isa 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
Isa 10:17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;
Peace,
Seeker
October 1st, 2006 at 8:26 am
The issue of the AC demanding worship is an enigma for sure. I think we plug in our various scenarios and try to imagine how this will all work out. I agree with you that we are still seeing through a glass darkly. I have gathered several possible scenarios and ways of dealing with these verses. But right now, my middle child is screaming that our dog threw up. As such, I have to get back…