YATI (Your Arms To Israel) Cult Update
Although it is somewhat unrelated to the usual theme here at Joel’s Trumpet, to date, there has not been a posting that has generated more comments than the recent expose on the YATI Cult led by self-proclaimed Apostle and Rabbi “Moshe” Koniuchowsky. Click here for a brief review of Koniuchowsy’s perverse work entitled Sex and the Believer. Again, the reason that I post this is simply because the need to expose fringe groups like YATI to the light of truth is imperative to save many from the snare of this last-days cult. A much more detailed expose is here.
August 20th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Its important this is posted Joel.
Recently, I have been in contact with the wife of Simon Altaf. She is keeping her head low for the moment, whilst matters are resolved re: their divorce.
Cults like this one must be exposed as soon as we hear of them. Waste no time. As people are being destroyed and wounded spiritually and emotionally.
August 20th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
I would like to see a review that has some measure of scholarly merit. Where did you drudge up this woman Joel? A review takes a statement from the work, and then comments on it, back that comment up with scripture and a logical argument that clearly shows opposition to the works statement. This poor lady you have had to resort to wrote something akin to what I might find in Vanity Fair.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
One does not need a scholar to review a work on this level. It is utter gutter sewage. However, if you had actually looked, you could have found the full review here:
http://its-time.info/book-review/sex-and-the-believer/
Here’s one example from this book:
If a man desires a virgin, or ANY damsel of his choosing and makes unwanted sexual advances towards her resulting in rape, the man then has two choices. He can walk away from his violent act without assuming responsibility for it. At that point he has committed rape and fornication, if it involved intercourse. On the other hand, even if he rapes her, but then does the right thing by repenting immediately and marrying her, nurturing her and caring for her, both the fornication and rape have been made null and void.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
HMI Admin,
What utter nonsense. It doesn’t necessarily require some kind of fully accredited scholar to prove and judge this ‘unholy trash’ of a book worthy of readership. You want Scripture references, comment and logical arguments? I suggest you go and do the review yourself.
Also, I guess this poor women was drudged up from where the stinking rapist left her…..hurt, abused, ashamed and heart broken. Only someone with a heart would be able to see that from her account.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
hands in palms crying…repent
August 20th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
After reading these reviews and the book excerpts included, I am utterly convinced that Moshe Koniuchowsky (MK) is a sociopath and has been given over to a reprobate mind. This book is filthy…the writings of an obviously sexually frustrated, deranged man. This book is the writings of a man possessed by demons. I would never spend my money to buy this piece of trash, and anyone who buys this book opens the door to heresy and ultimately demonic oppression.
I attended YATI for one year. I left there 8 months ago after finally getting fed up with their disgusting modus operandi. I have seen two people this year from YATI, who closely followed MK’s teachings, suffer severe demonic oppression. Had it not been for the prayers of saints at congregations outside of the YATI/BYSW cult (congregations MK would mock or condemn), these two people would have probably either gone insane or died. Praise Yeshua these two saints have been delivered of this oppression and are now thriving in Yeshua in other congregations.
Joel, thank you for providing a venue where MK and his sick cult can finally be exposed. MK is a fraud and has no rabbinical/apostolic authority whatsoever. With this book he has pelted the Messianic/Hebrew Roots movement with excrement. He is an agent of satan; he operates a synagogue of satan; he has profaned the Name of Adonai among both Jews and Non-Jews; and he has made a mockery of Torah and Messiah Yeshua.
I appeal to all members of YATI/BYSW: Leave this sick cult or be swept away by the consequences of fearing man more than Adonai. Adonai wants a real, loving relationship with you; not a sick pass-through relationship via MK and his wicked teachings. MK is a false prophet; and all false prophets have their place in the lake of fire. There is a beautiful life outside of YATI/BYSW. Be brave enough to trust Adonai to help you leave and find true freedom in Him.
Kin
August 20th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
That is funny Kin. Its the BYSW people who are the ones fearing YHWH more than man. Lol. What fear of man is there in BYSW? Moshe is just a teacher that everyone in BYSW respects. Its you people who are shuddering at the thought of a messianic organization accepting something that is still technically illegal, although its a ‘blue law’ in many respects. You folks are the ones fearing man. If the Pope had an army greater than the USA and took over all of us, and forced you to join the Catholic church are burn as heretics, I will bet the lot of you will run in droves and kiss his ring!
August 20th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
You’re pretty far gone, HMI. Romans 1 applies to you and your sick cult.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
HMI Admin, you too will be swept away holding on to MK’s tallit! I have embraced the Hebrew roots of my faith and have no intention of ever abandoning them or my Messiah. As I said to you in the other message board, i sojourn with Judah in Messiah, since Messiah Yeshua came from Judah. What tribe are you again? Oh, I forget, MK has convinced you that you’re an Ephraimite. You poor dear…
August 20th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
I just spent the weekend as a keynote speaker on Saturday with most of the leading messianic speakers in the United States at a conference in Chicago…Moshe and his madness was flatly rejected by them all…in mass (no pun intended). The Ephraimite error is error for one reason, it makes no difference. Ephraim is much larger than the messianic movement and is simply entertaining genealogies. Yes, the Two Houses of Israel are being restored but it won’t be by Marshall K. or anyone else…that job is taken. It is disgusting and sinful and again he needs to repent lest the low hanging fruit gets lopped off the vine. Tribal genealogies are ABSURD and prove nothing. You are either Israel and allow the torah of YHWH to be written on your softened heart or you are a branch waiting to be thrown into the burn pile. Brother, I am no friend of christopaganism on any streetcorner but this is sad. Get your head out of Moshe’s rearend and look to Messiah Yashua, he only has one bride, the Israel of Elohim.
A rebuke from someone who would like to see you in the kingdom of heaven which is coming to earth. Proof that you know better is made manifest by your compulsory projection of this ideology everytime your name pops up on this message board. Repeating it will never make it Yah’s way. I pray that you look into Moshe’s eyes and see that the lamp is not as bright as it once was…and I pray that you turn to Abba. I wonder if I should drive 6 hours south and blow the lid off of this nonsense and point these poor people to messiah…they must really be hurting.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:05 am
This is a sick twisted cult that feeds off of vulnerable people who are looking for a genuine relationship with God. Moshe will be judged by the king of kings! He will be destroyed by the Lamb unless he repents. Sexual perversion is tell-tale sign of false teachers. HMI even if the Torah justified this teaching which is debateable at best this interpetation is self serving and devoid of love, grace, and regard for the welfare of women. This directly opposses the teachings of Jesus and the prophets. Repent sir and be saved by the grace of God!
August 21st, 2008 at 12:07 am
Just wanted to add this…the easiest way to tell whether someone has a spiritual problem is whether or not they know where we are in time. Messiah is the spirit of prophecy and the eschatology of YATI is WAY OFF…I have spoken with Methodist pastors that have better understanding of where we are in history. I am pesuaded that a great number of self appointed rabbis and apostles are dazed and confused by insatiable lusts for the things of this world. Saddening…
August 21st, 2008 at 12:15 am
Chris when you get fired we could go down there and share the love of Jesus and Yeshua (both) with them…they both love these people.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:41 am
Hey Scot,
Can I come too?
August 21st, 2008 at 6:17 am
Scot Dryer -
‘’I wonder if I should drive 6 hours south and blow the lid off of this nonsense and point these poor people to messiah…they must really be hurting.'’-
If you can go, please do. And take a couple of witnesses.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:34 am
At this point Scot, I’d be careful. A desparate little man is going to be protecting his crumbling little empire. These types can be dangerous. Next thing he will be doing is distorting some passages from the book of Pseudo-Jasher about killing all who oppose him.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:39 am
Another exciting new analysis about bible prophecy, in particular Psalm 83
http://isralestine-blog.blogspot.com/
Listen to the two mp3 interviews at the top of the page and then Google Isralstine for links to discussion boards about it.
I highly recommend it!
August 21st, 2008 at 9:20 am
I started looking into Psalm 83 before I ever heard of this book. I believe God warned us of the coming war in 2006 when a 1,000 year old book of Scriptures was found opened to Psalm 83 in Ireland!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51255
August 21st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Yes, Gideon, knowing about the prophetic significance of Psalm 83 is not new, but I think how the author shows it fitting into the big picture is : )
August 21st, 2008 at 12:37 pm
This false teachings reminds me of the “religion of peace”.
HMI, are you really a Muhammedian posing as some rightous idiot trying to lead lambs astray?
August 21st, 2008 at 12:55 pm
What has happened to MK, Altaf, YATI/BYSW can be summed up in 2 Peter Chapter 2. People who do not have a personal relationship with Adonai will get messed up by false teachers like MK and Altaf. It is imperative that everyone work out their own salvation and learn to seek and be guided by Adonai themselves. You can’t have a relationship with Adonai through your pastor/teacher or rabbi. It’s time that all believers stamp out these false teachers from among their ranks! Yeshua is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Follow Him!
2 Peter 2 (King James Version)
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I am the owner of one of the blogs linked in this article. A poster by the name of Hebrew posted a few comments on my blog last night. It was obvious they were just generic comments that really didn’t address the issue. Since the verbage of one post here by HMI Admin is almost identical, I believe I have now met my Hebrew poster.
As one Torah teacher responded to me, the fact that individuals are glomming onto this twisted interpretation of scripture promoted by this cult, indicates the extent of the lawlessness of our society.
Thank you Joel, and all who are speaking out, for being faithful to what God has called you to. Blogs such as this one have already resulted in one local teacher in my city removing themselves from this cult.
I realize this is a bit off your usual postings, but the fact that this perversion is accepted is part of fulfillment of prophecy, men will so what is right in their own eye (my own paraphrase)
August 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Sorry Armageddon,
I didn’t make my comment to you very clear. What I meant was I had come across Psalm 83 as a prophecy on my own just prior to hearing about this book. I personally had always just breezed by it without ever stopping to really read and understand what the Psalm was saying.
August 21st, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Let me know if I get this wrong or you have a better interp.
PS. 83:5-8 with modern-day geographic names (inserted)
5.”With one mind they plot together; they form and alliance against you- 6. The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites (So-called “Palestinian authority” in the west bank), of Moab and the Hagrites, 7. Gebal, and Amalek (Golan Heights area and So. Lebanon) Philistia (Hamas, the Gaza strip) and the People of Tyre (Hezbollah) 8. Even Assyria (Syria proper, Damascus) has joined them to lend strength to the descendants of Lot.”
August 21st, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Very well said. Eloquently and simply. And that shoud put you HMI Admin to silence.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Is this Simon Altaf?
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:07 am
I just want to thank you for posting the link to my full review of Moshe K.’s book (http://its-time.info/book-review/sex-and-the-believer/) … this is enabling many people to know the truth about this book without having to read it themselves (which I don’t recommend to anyone.) May His blessings be upon you
)
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:10 am
Scott,
Stop praying for me to get fired….I don’t need any help. I can do that all on my own….all I have to do is continue to teach a Post-trib rapture and my critics wont stop until they have my head.
But I’d go down there with ya brother if the Lord leads that way I’m game. This cult is dangerous pretty soon he’ll be serving his followers kool-aid. Don’t drink it!
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:14 am
I was so sickened by the excerpts of the MK book that lastnight went to bed early asking Adonai why He had allowed such filth to infect the Body of Messiah. Then He gave me the answer. I will have to echo a bit of something that kc wrote in her blog:
False prophets and cults like MK and YATI thrive because believers refuse to invest the time in studying the scriptures and/or asking the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) to guide us as we study scripture. We seem to be “too busy” to invest the time in studying the Word of Adonai that many will believe any heretical interpretation. MK thrives in a small pond of unlearned, uneducated “fish”. These people refuse to think for themselves. They run to him for everything. He deceives them into believing that both mainstream Christianity and Judaism have cheated them of their identity. He also makes them believe that without him they are nothing, and if they leave the cult that they will be “lost”. These people have taken MK as a “god”. They need to prayed for as there are those in YATI who are willing to die for MK.
I thank warriors like Joel, Walid, Aaliyah, kc and Bonnie for standing up and exposing this evil in the Body. MK and YATI are like “gangrene” on the Body of Messiah. There needs to be an “amputation” lest the infection spread to the whole body and end our collective “death”. I wish more Messianic leaders, broadcasters would take a public stand against these heresies infecting the Messianic/Hebrew roots movement. They too bare some responsibility for the creation and spread of fringe groups like YATI; because our leaders seem to stick their heads in the sand whenever the “crazies” open their mouths. When we do not openly stand up to evil, evil will rule all of us. If I had the media to spread this warning to as many people as possible I would.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:51 am
You are very welcome!
I think that the reason more leaders have not come out against this is because it is so new. It is obvious (from reading the book) that this book was pushed through without proof reading or editing, which to me is a tell tale sign that this is NOT from Adonai. Most leaders are very careful before releasing this type of teaching, taking the time to have others look over the work, proof reading, editing and assuring the Scriptural references are correct. If this is the case, it would explain why they have not yet published position pages. I happen to know that FFOZ only found out about this when kc wrote to them asking their stance on it.
Keep praying for our leaders, and give them the time they need to formulate a response
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Glad to see you your posts here Aaliyah. You have tremendous courage for speaking out.
Sonia
x
August 22nd, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I too see a strong similarity to the perversity of many Hadith and what Imam’s teach.
August 22nd, 2008 at 6:24 pm
I find this information very interesting, Aaliyah. Yes, Chris Schaeffer’s name is found at the beginning of those chapters and the date of the forward is May 15, 2008 so yes, I’d say this was rushed out. Did you know that Amazon is out of stock? I fear this is only the beginning.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
The fact that the rating is in the millions means that it has only sold possibly two copies on Amazon. The fact that it is out of stock shows that they only sent Amazon a couple. I would encourage some folks to write a review that quotes the book to let people know that it endorses all sorts of perversity and deviant cultic practices.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Joel and All, I have written an Amazon review. I wasn’t sure they would accept it because I had to use some terms that I wouldn’t normally use in mixed company. I’ve been following the Amazon site. It’s just in the past couple days that they are saying it’s out of stock.
There is an individual quoted in MK’s book that I’ve privately e-mailed with. He didn’t know he had been quoted and ordered a copy. Was told it would be a number of weeks till he got a copy. HMI Admin aka Hebrew has indicated that the second printing would be rewritten. I think they realized they had made too many error is declaring “God’s revelation” and pulled the book. Those of us with the original printing will have a responsibility to make sure that the truth of changes is known to those who care.
kc in AZ
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Ahhh… Just like the Jehovah’s Witesses or many other cults… always changing their literature…
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:10 am
If it walks like a duck(cult), talks like a duck, looks like a duck. It must be a duck. This is a very troubling development.
I am starting to see how we in America are being groomed to swallow the Islamic lie, hook, line, and sinker.
It is totally amazing to me to see how even this lines up with “end times” lies of the devil.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:32 am
I have not yet read the book and I am not sure I want to spend the money to get it. However, I have already said that the reviews were helpful to me.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:16 am
Donna,
Excerpts from, Sex and the Believer: Shocking Freedom of Sexuality in Torah, by Apostle/Rabbi Moshe Yosef Koniuchowsky
from page 282:
“…How one may ask do the laws of niddah (menstruation) affect the plural marriage? Actually that’s one of the benefits of plural marriage. If one wife has her monthly separation from her husband, wife#2 can enter the picture, while she remains unclean; and hubby is happy and if hubby is happy all is well….”
from page 310:
“…Once properly educated about plural marriage, the Proverbs 31 wife will that her needs for intimacy can be greatly enhanced in that type of relationship and that she will get added intimacy from sister wives, while he gets more sex. A man, who gets more kosher sex, is recharged and that rechared batter will have its benefits for wife # 1 also!
It requires maturity for sure, as maturity is a telltale sign of a Proverbs 31 woman of character.
If the wife does not, cannot, or is not willing to submit to the leadership of the husband who may be led to add a second, then she is not acting in accordance with the Proverbs 31 woman….”
from page 312:
Many couples started out in monogamy and then later when the man desires to add a wife and the first wife gets nervous and insecure, she needs to be cut some slack. As she will be sure to inform you, two, or three wives is not what she signed up for 30 years ago; and now here you are Mr. Macho throwing this on her, or in essence changing the rules of the games at halftime. That’s a shock to her and she needs prayer, nurturing love and patience as you gently show her your plan and how she also can geatly benefit from this new arrangement.
Aaliyah: How women can benefit from this arrangement is by saving on childcare costs and help around the house and work knowing that the children will be cared for I am told. MMMMMMmmm So men have “needs” that don’t seem to go beyond sex whereas as us women can look forward to great savings on childcare.
The back of the book refers to website www.nazarene-yisraelite-marriages.com. A website set up by Simon Altaf encouraging people to put their photos on there and break the law of the land.
Please read the statement of faith ever so carefully. Polygamy is apparently a pre-requisite for salvation!
Page 58 of ’sex and the believer’ Quote:
‘A woman in fellatio,cunnilingus, or intercourse with a male concubine, or sex slave, appears to be part of YHWH’s VERY liberal allowances for His female children; a way out of her frustration and neglect. Now ladies; go and find one! And don’t forget to explain it to hubby’
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
This book is disgusting.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Aaliyah,
What kind of intimacy can two women have that share the same man? I do not understand that. Unless of course there is some other kind of intimacy that is being spoken of here.
What about the vow to foresake all others? Does this vow somehow get nullified? Again, I do not understand. Is this not a sin under Torah law?
The next thing we may see is the advocacy of slavery. How can Christians who love their fellow man/women enslave them and then use them for sex?
What redeeming qualities does polygamy have in our society? I can’t see any.
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:44 pm
This whole debate is making my stomach churn. Disturbing. Sick. Far far gone from Gods righteousness.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Mine too, Sonia. This sick cult and their polygamic belief makes my spirit recoil in horror. Their willingness to not only believe and partake in their sickness is one thing, but they enjoy debating others to “prove” their Satanic behavior is God ordained. That turns my stomach–and it makes me very angry.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:02 am
I keep trying to add some information here concerning this issue but it won’t allow me to post that particular message but will allow me to post others
August 24th, 2008 at 2:03 am
It keeps saying that I can’t leave a duplicate message but the message has not been posted.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:04 am
When I was on their forum there was a man from Sweden I think his name was Lev something. Well He was a polygamist and on his site there was also a link to site by one of his wives who had written an article claiming that just as a husband can have sexual relations with all his wives, so the wives can also have sexual relations with each other as long as the husband knows and agrees to it. I can’t remember the site now but I do remember that his wives site was quite difficult to get into and kept changing the address every couple of days (I wonder why). Also I believe that this book should be reported as it calls for legalised rape and even supports paedophilia as long as it is done in secret. This is sick. I can’t believe that at the begining of reading this book I nearly agreed with it.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:05 am
I found out what was wrong. It wouldn’t let me write a certain word which describes the sexual relationship between 2 women.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am
This just keeps getting sicker by the post. What can these people be thinking? Are we called to be holy? Is not sexual sin purity one of the cornerstones of the Christian life? How is this different then what the world practices? Somehow it is all ok because a man leads it all with his many wives and sex slaves. How does that justify it?
I feel so violated by this. The depravity is breath taking. I still can’t wrap my mind around it all. This actually demeans the purity of marriage. I have been married for over 30 years. For the life of me I can’t see how any of this lifts up Jesus.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Opps, I mean is not sexual purity the pillars of the Christian Life?
August 24th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I won’t comment further on what’s written above. My friends and I are making sure that this dirty laundry is displayed on as many websites that Messianics/Nazarenes frequent as possible. Sooner or later we, who are faithful followers of Yeshua’s Torah will crush this evil & sick heresy.
August 24th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Peter Stone, Lev Tsion is otherwise known as Christopher Warren, NCCG, New Covenant Church of God, A Cult leader. You can look up Nccg and find out more about him. His wife at Nazerene Poly hotline is Avah. His first wife, the youngest, left him last summer i believe… He is a dangerous loser and has been linked up to MK for a few years now. Orginally he studied with the Mormons, now he has his own self styled cult which takes and blends Mormonism, and ect. He is really in his own element now at Nazerene Ply hotline…..
August 25th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Yori thanks for your comment. I do remember seeing a lot of mormon books and material on his site which started a lot of alarm bells ringing.
August 25th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Ah ha…I’ve noticed that http://nazarene-yisraelite-marriages.com, a web site set up by Simon Altaf on behalf of Your Arms to Israel (YATI) is no longer accessible.
Could this be why the cheap “dirty old man” book has been removed from Amazon? Because there is mention of the site inciting people to find 1st, 2nd, 3rd wives and for women to look for a plural marriage family so that they can engage in the revelation given by the Almighty Himself (allegedly) to engage in polygamy, male and female concubines, sodomy amongst other things?
Has the light of of this “revelation” dimmed somewhat or is it simply that the light’s in a storefront are not quite so bright?
August 25th, 2008 at 7:11 am
Well, they have said that they will be removing the part about male concubines (sex slaves for married women).
Well I guess they’ve realised that they should have “tested the spirit” of this revelation before incriminating themselves and their dirty mind.
Hence the removal of the link to http://nazarene-yisraelite-marriages.com and the book from Amazon until they can hash up another one, whizz it through a printing press and pretend that all this didn’t really happen.
As Bonnie noted:
It is obvious (from reading the book) that this book was pushed through without proof reading or editing, which to me is a tell tale sign that this is NOT from Adonai (LORD - emphasis mine for lay people who don’t know what Adonai means). Most leaders are very careful before releasing this type of teaching, taking the time to have others look over the work, proof reading, editing and assuring the Scriptural references are correct.
Teachers as the bible says bear a double burden for their actions as their actions can lead impressionable people astray. As these people Moshe Koniuchowsky, Simon Altaf and YATI as a whole have no problems teaching that Isaac was a literal burnt offering, that having male concubines is a permissible allowance for married women who are too frustrated and neglected as their husband has two many wives and too little time and then later remove such a thing just goes to show that these people have an over active imagination, do mental gymnastics with scripture. They are imprudent enough to set up websites, write books about anything that enters their head…defend it till they are blue in the face and then several months down the line when the damage has been done…remove it.
August 25th, 2008 at 10:50 am
David Crisp,
Yes, all of Israel’s neighbors that they share a border with.
August 25th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I’m really not surprised that they are removing the male concubine teaching… it didn’t really line up with his teaching on Joseph and Potiphar’s wife. I find it interesting that on past books written by MK (under his real name Marshall) his wife is listed as editor, yet there is no editor listed on the Sex book (because obviously no one edited it.) We really need to pray for the wives of these men (including Aaliyah and Chris Schaffer’s wife).
Why do you think these men suppose that God needs our help to bring about His will? Arrogance.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
We definately need to pray for all the women including Rivkah, and more importantly for all the husbands to come to their senses. I don’t really know any of the other women but I will pray for them.
I wouldn’t wish this situation on anyone, especially if children are involved so I personally feel we should pray for the husbands so that they don’t put their wife and possibly children through this.
I know for a FACT that Rivkah said that she accepts this as a doctrine because the patriachs practiced it but “it’s not what I signed up for”. On Saturday 12 July I am told they said that this is the official YATI doctrine and that a wife’s permission is not necessary. I wasn’t there when this was said as I decided to go for a long walk. Thank goodness for that!
Only a week after Simon Altaf declares his intention to take another wife, Moshe K sends out an e-mail to his mailing list, joyously proclaiming that Rivkah has allowed him to take another wife! I guess the poor woman didn’t think she had a choice, after being harassed for months by her husband who said to me “I am going through the same issues in my family” and their latest official YATI position and that consent is not necessary. I guess the poor woman didn’t have a choice but to agree and “submit to authority” as these people keep drilling in like a broken record as they do not know the language of love, compassion and mercy but only the language of opression and fear.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Exactly. Highly recommended book: Understanding the Mind of a Woman by Ken Nair. Best book there is on helping husbands to be Christ-like. (As opposed to Patriarch like.)
August 26th, 2008 at 3:59 am
I find it sad that these men want their women to treat them as if they were their masters, but that is not the way that Adonai wants us to look at Him.
“It will come about in that day,” declares the LORD, “That you will call Me Ishi And will no longer call Me Baali.” (Hosea 2:16)
You see, husband and master are NOT the same thing. These men want to lord it over their wives, but that is NOT the way of Adonai. He never, ever forces anyone to do anything against their will, yet these men would have us believe that it is God’s will for them to be the master of women. Sex and power go hand-in-hand.
August 26th, 2008 at 5:05 am
Bonnie,
That is one of the problems with polygamy. It is not about loving their wife, but rather controlling their “women”.
As a Christian with a dubious(rape victim, oppressive behavior from my grandfather) background I can say truthfully, it has taken a lot of love and patience on my husbands part for my heart to melt enough to actually be able to submit to his leadership position.
This is exactly what we are told. Love is the backbone of the Christian Life. And I can say with complete knowledge that LOVE-unconditional love does break down barriers. Where as oppression and men “LORDING it over their women builds barriers.
August 26th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Just an update. I heard that MK just deleted his entire email list because he is afraid of his teaching going outside of his new “network” of “crazies”. He even acknowledged that his network is “smaller”. What is he afraid of? I quote 1 John 4:18 “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.” Anyone on the old mailing list should now be relieved - no more YATI/BYSW filth!
August 26th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
It sad, when I think of Simon especially and his testimony, he did so much to help people around the world. He set Abrahamic-Faith.com with such love and zeal for the Almighty and now what is that worth? What is his testimony worth to those who were walking gingerly towards faith because he took the time and effort to share with them. And what he did to help them especially financially and showed by his actions that he was a follower of the Creator with such love, mercy and compassion.
When someone bad, fallen in our eyes of society does something good, everyone takes notice as everyone notices the new light, that one ray of light dawning and we remember him for that for years to come. But when someone we once esteemed falls as he has fallen, all the good report and testimony he once bore withers…to be remembered no more.
Ezekial 33:12-13:
“Therefore, son of man, say to your countrymen, ‘The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he disobeys, and the wickedness of the wicked man will not cause him to fall when he turns from it. The righteous man, if he sins, will not be allowed to live because of his former righteousness.’ If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, NONE OF THE RIGHTEOUS THINGS HE HAS WILL BE REMEMBERED; he will die for the evil he has done.”
August 26th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I keep talking about the spiritual blackmail I’m finding throughout this man’s material… well I thought I’d share with you an example of what I mean. In a recent Shabbat radio address (8/08) MK stated:
MUST follow the plural marriage model - to populate Israel… those who say one wife is enough or one mother-in-law is enough are ridiculing YHWH. We are to populate Israel. Most people can’t handle this truth because the elohim in their family wears pantyhose!!
If this so-called truth were actually, well… true, then why would he have to resort to this kind of blackmail? Once again, if you don’t agree with us, you can’t be saved.
Bonnie
>
Bondservant of Yeshua the Messiah
www.its-time.info
August 26th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
I hope no one minds that I enter into the discussion. Bonnie passed this website along to me. I am the editor of an online magazine for Messianic women called Sarah’s Tent. In April of this year I was led to write an article on the polygyny issue. Some of the quotes that Aaliyah shared from the book were covered in the article. The website is www.sarahstent.info and the article can be found on the Past Issues page, Spring 2008.
Hadassah
August 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
A truly beautiful article Hadassah. I read every word.
The rebuttal to the claim that Hashem had two wives was GENIUS!
August 28th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Thank you for reading the article Aaliyah, although I can take no credit. It was inspired by Ruach. The Father gave me the words to write.
Hadassah
August 29th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Hi Hadassah,
I read your article: I liked the opener. I just would like to know how to respond to someone who thinks that the plurality of echad to mean one that is divided up and then in a unity as in cardinal/ordinal means plurality of marriage? I guess some people like chris schaffer and company on Nazerene True Name Network will wring out ,twist, ****then cut and paste the Holy Word of God until it is unrecognizable. They also seem to think that the Holy Spirit is feminine and that it is seven spirits. Of course i read that some on the “polygamy hotline” do not even believe in the Trinity; i suppose that is the easy route to justify their sin. I did like your article though, Thank You for it….
Well May God Bless You,
Yori
August 29th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Yori, I read an article on their network written by Lev-Tsion (Christopher warren) stating that he believed in in the Holy Spirit being feminine and that it is seven spirits. I asked him about the mormon connection as some of this teaching is very close to mormonism. He seemed to think this wasn’t a problem and that the Trinity was a pagan idea. While I have a few issues with the Trinity in that I prefer to use the term Tri-unity (which Perry Stone uses) I think that this teaching coming out from their network is getting into the realms of Blasphemy. Also yesterday while I was doing some searching on MK, I discovered that he had a teaching released in 2000 teaching that satan was actually the bride of YHWH but had left him and this is where all the problem now come from. I have never listened to this teaching but this discription of it is very disturbing to me.
August 30th, 2008 at 4:54 am
What astonishes me is the total lack of regard for half of the human population. It’s all about male gratification and if it is viewed as unfair to women, their response is, “Oh well, deal with it.” They speak of submissiveness as if it were total obedience, when that is not what it is at all. They view a “sweet” wife as one who never questions, never has a thought of her own outside of theirs, and any wife that doesn’t measure up to their standards must be changed. Women are to nod and quietly do exactly what they are told, even if that involves physically placing their husband’s hands into those of another woman. They are expected to sacrifice all for their husband, yet the husband is the messiah-type and should actually be the one making the sacrifices.
Those who constantly write about a woman’s submissiveness to men need to remember two very important things: women are told to submit to their husbands, not every man in the community, and they are to submit to a man who will SACRIFICE for her.
Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband. (Ephesians 5:22-33)
When a man loves a woman to the point of willingness to die for her, fully giving his life over to her, then he will be walking in the footsteps of Yeshua. Only then does he deserve the kind of respect that he longs for; only then will he fully understand his relationship with Yeshua our Messiah.
Bonnie
Bondservant of Yeshua the Messiah
www.its-time.info
August 30th, 2008 at 5:20 am
Bonnie you last reply was very good although I don’t think it will have much affect on people like HMI or Czarina who seem to be so brainwashed as to think for themselves.
August 30th, 2008 at 7:32 am
There is nothing that I can say to convince those who are unable to think for themselves… but hopefully I can influence a genuine seeker to think twice about putting these teachings into action. At least I can show the women that there are those who understand what they are going through.
Bonnie
Bondservant of Yeshua the Messiah
www.its-time.info
August 30th, 2008 at 7:34 am
That is very true
August 30th, 2008 at 8:07 am
My husband always says, “I call them as I see them.” Well, what does he call this? Man’s attempt at remaining “righteous” while refusing to deal with a sexual addiction. He assures me that not all men have a secret desire to have two women at the same time.
September 1st, 2008 at 6:13 am
I have really been praying a lot about this lately. To be honest, the issue of marriage and how we view it has been very heavy on my heart of late. Most people don’t understand how important this topic is; if we can’t properly understand the marriage relationship, what hope have we to understand our relationship with our Husband?
I have really been feeling that what we are dealing with here is not a simple Biblical debate, but one that has a spiritual significance that escapes most of us. I feel we are up against a demonic stronghold here that can only be fought by prayer and fasting.
In the end times the enemy will gain in strength. The only way to combat him is by gaining strength ourselves. The spirit of lust is strong but can be overcome by the Spirit of God (Ruach HaKodesh) working through us… we simply have to be open vessels for Him to use.
Think about this year’s events thus far… we have the FLDS raid in Texas, followed by the release of this book promoting polygamy, and now it is official, our first black presidential candidate also happens to be the son of a polygamous Muslim man. Personally, I don’t believe in coincidences.
Folks, we need to pray as never before. We need to dig into the Word as never before. If 2008 is a year of “new beginnings,” and this is any indication of what lies ahead, then by golly, we ain’t seen nuthin’ yet!
Bonnie
Bondservant of Yeshua the Messiah
www.its-time.info
September 1st, 2008 at 7:33 am
Shalom Bonnie,
I agree we need to pray and pray hard. I believe the next 7 years are going to be rough for everyone, especially for believers. I do believe that Adonai will deliver his people from the hour of temptation. I do have to disagree with you on one point:
While I am no fan of Barack Obama, I don’t believe one should cast judgment on a child born of polygamy. The child has no control over how they are born. Barack’s father, though born to a Muslim convert father, was himself an atheist. Barack’s father also had other younger children whom he abandoned. I am certainly glad that Barack Obama, at least to our knowledge, has chosen to not to follow in his father’s philandering footsteps. I prefer to evaluate Barack Obama based on things he has done himself. Please also note that at least one of Mitt Romney’s parents is the product of polygamy. I can’t judge him for that either.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:02 am
Just to let you all know that Chris Schaeffer has now crawled out of the woodwork on the other discussion on this site at http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=1380 . He is quiet a pice of work. He was already made false accusation against me and made up a scinario about me which must all be in his head as I have never met him or know him. I think I should probably stop typing on this subject soon as the more I do the angrier I get.
September 2nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Hi Peter, I saw Chris Schaeffer’s posts and I was sickened by them. I think at this point we should all leave them alone. These people are under severe demonic attack. I have seen this before in people associated with YATI. This attack will end in one of three ways: through deliverance by Messiah Yeshua, by complete nervous breakdown, or by death. The people I know were fortunate enough to be delivered. They have since repented of all of YATI’s false teachings and are now thriving as powerful witnesses for Messiah Yeshua in a Messianic Jewish congregation.
Let’s pray for Chris, HMI ADmin and all those who chose to follow YATI’s wicked path. YATI teachings give them “demonic power”. That same power will eventually sweep them away.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 am
Thanks Kin for your message. I have ceased as of last night from posting messages on that blog or responding to him. This whole thing makes me sad. This has done more harm to those christians seeking more truth in hebraic roots, Torah etc than anything else could have.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Yori,
I’m sorry I didn’t read your post until today. We went away for the weekend. There are people who twist the Word to make it fit their personal interpretation. But we have only to look at what God’s intent was for the family. The perfect situation was what happened in the garden before man sinned. Adam had one wife. (This is the two halves becoming echad.) After man sinned perfection became corrupted, and then you have man doing what was right in their own eyes.
Hadassah
September 4th, 2008 at 8:03 am
My heart bleeds for the families that are being torn apart by this bad teaching. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that the fruit is rotten to the core. There is not one polygamous family in Scripture that did not have major problems as a direct result of multiple wives. God doesn’t always have to discipline us… He allows us to make mistakes so that we can learn on our own that we should just follow His ways instead of finding loopholes.
I too am done speaking with Mr. Schaefer. His issues are obviously spiritual and nothing anyone can say will change his view. We must continue to pray, however, not only for his family, but for all of the families who have been affected by these false prophets (who are known by their fruit.)
Thank you, Joel, for allowing us a place to share our concerns with one another so that we can pray and stand fast against teachings like this one that are designed to destroy.
Bonnie
Bondservant of Yeshua the Messiah
www.its-time.info
February 28th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
For any who read through this whole post, It may be obvious that Aliyah Altaf had once made several posts describing the deception and perversity of her husband Simon. Later, as she was involved in a divorce, she e-mailed me and asked me to remove these posts in order that she could simpy put this all behind her and move on with her life. I did so. Recently, I heard that Aliyah was back with Simon despite his adherance to polygamy. Little needs to be said about this. Soul-ties are difficult to break even when physical, sexual, spiritual or psychological abuse is involved. Please pray for this dear sister.